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Peter Creasey

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Post Posted September 25th, 2021, 6:30 am

I hate to contemplate this, but if it becomes necessary to consider a browser other than SeaMonkey, what might be the best alternative to provide the same or similar browser capabilities as what SeaMonkey has always provided so wondrously?

Edge? Or what?
. . . . . . . . . . Pete

LIMPET235
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Post Posted September 25th, 2021, 7:05 am

Moving this to SeaMonkey Support...
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Post Posted September 25th, 2021, 8:47 am

I just use CrEdge for websites which don't work in SeaMonkey. But turned off lots of privacy intrusive features first. Any Chromium based browser should do for browsing. Feature wise aside from web compatibility none available. Vivaldi is the closest one when it comes to suite functionality. Why all this negativity and I need ONE browser which works on EVERYTHING under the sun only is beyond my understanding but it is a free world and run what you want.

FRG

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Post Posted September 25th, 2021, 9:30 am

Pale Moon is a good browser. For pages that do not work with Pale Moon, Brave is pretty good. It is focused on privacy, which is a good thing.

Peter Creasey

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Post Posted September 25th, 2021, 10:56 am

frg wrote: Why all this negativity and I need ONE browser which works on EVERYTHING


I understand your feelings on this...which I share.

I'm the biggest fan of SeaMonkey; however, more and more sites are not working with SeaMonkey. This suggests that at some point the viability of SeaMonkey might be in question. Given my liking of SM, it just makes sense to ask SM partisans as they can be expected to know which browser might be an alternative most like SeaMonkey.
. . . . . . . . . . Pete

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Post Posted September 25th, 2021, 12:04 pm

Peter,

If you are talking about a browser that mostly reproduces the entire SeaMonkey suite then you are probably out of luck. On the other hand if you are talking about the browser aspect alone then there are reasonable alternatives but they work a little differently 'under the hood' so to speak. I do not understand this 'under the hood' difference but I do know that in my various 'process monitor' programs (similar to the Windows Task Manager), SeaMonkey always shows just one process in operation. By contrast all of the other gecko-based (Firefox-related) and chromium-based (Chrome-related) browsers show multiple processes in operation. I have found that these multiple processes use up a lot of resources but they still work well on modern machines with adequate memory.

I run about 10 browsers on a mostly daily rotation except for weekends. I use SeaMonkey for most browsing and various special purposes and especially for downloading other programs. Of the other main 10 that I use there are five gecko-related browsers (Firefox, Slim, and Waterfox in one category; and PaleMoon and MyPal in another.)

Firefox works well and is updated continually. It does not use the old legacy extensions that many of us became used to, but beyond that it functions quite well and usually does not have any issues.

SlimBrowser is a Firefox clone with perhaps a few extra features built in. (See " https://www.slimbrowser.net/en/compare-browser.php ".) It is not updated as often as Firefox but it works just as well with usually no issues.

Waterfox is another Firefox clone that comes in two versions: Waterfox Classic where they have been trying to keep some of the old legacy extensions alive while still using the more modern Firefox technology---they are working off of Firefox ESR v56; and Waterfox Third Generation where they are very similar to the current Firefox and are updated on the current Firefox schedule. I have not used the Classic version so I cannot say how well it works but my guess is that it will have more and more issues as time goes on. As for the Third Generation there are comments that it supposedly accepts not only Firefox extensions but also those of Chrome and Opera---I have not tried these options so I cannot vouch for them. Otherwise the Third Generation operates and looks just like Firefox.

PaleMoon forked off of Firefox long ago and like SeaMonkey it still shows only one process in operation. I cannot remember why they forked but it was during the time of one of Firefox's modernizations in appearance or something like that. As time went on they have sort of gone their own way---their underlying engine is now called "Goanna" which is a fork of Gecko. Of all of the options this one probably feels and looks more like SeaMonkey. Many of the old legacy extensions used to work until just recently but as of sometime in the last year or so many of these have been "disabled". None of the current Firefox extensions work with PaleMoon so the latter has had to build up its own collection; this list is growing all the time but it does not seem to match what is available for Firefox. However for basic extensions, like ad-blocking, etc, they have an ample supply.

MyPal was simply an exact clone of PaleMoon that was also able to work on Windows XP. However as of the last two months, a sad disagreement between PaleMoon and MyPal seemingly has halted the development of MyPal at version 29.3.0 (PaleMoon is now at 29.4.1). This last version still works but as time goes on it will fall out of date if it is not revived. The current developer is taking a break and pondering his options.

Another Gecko-related browser that I have installed but hardly ever use is the Tor browser. This is a Firefox clone and works just as well and is updated in a similar manner. However Tor is very concerned about privacy and anonymity by default. So many of these types of features are automatically built-in. As such I consider it to be a special purpose browser and do not use it until I need to. It would probably not work very well on web sites dependant upon cookies, popups, and other such features.

Of the chromium-based options I do NOT use Google Chrome and simply would not recommend it, due to Google's past reputation related to tracking. While Google has improved a bit over the last few years I still tend to shy away from the browser. However in a certain sense it is now the most used browser and the standard that all other browsers are measured against. Of the chromium-based list I use Microsoft Edge, SRWare Iron, Opera, Slimjet, and Vivaldi

Microsoft Edge (the newest and current version) works just as well as Chrome and according to some reports even better. I have not had any problems with it and it is updated continually by Microsoft, similarly to how Windows 10 in updated. It uses all of the Chrome extensions. Edge apparently feels and operates like Chrome but Microsoft has gone in and made many changes. Probably all of the "report to Google" features have been removed or deactivated. It is a modernized browser and Microsoft is probably the only corporate entity that will squarely compete with Google in the browser business, while still using the chromium base that Google developed and released to the open source community.

SRWare Iron is a Chrome clone that has probably removed and deactivated all of the "report to Google" features. (See " https://www.srware.net/iron/ ") It is not updated as often as Chrome but to me it is updated often enough. Iron pretty much sticks to basics, works well, and uses all the Chrome extensions.

Opera is another Chrome clone that has probably removed and deactivated all of the "report to Google" features. They have also built in some extra features and customizations that I have not used, but the browser works very well and uses both their own and potentially the Chrome extensions (with an extension that allows this!). Opera is updated continuously and automatically. [The original Opera (Presto) was my favorite and workhorse browser for years and years, and I only abandoned it reluctantly. Opera was a major innovator in the browser markets in the early going and many of its original and innovative features have not been carried over to the new browser. {Sigh} I still have Opera 12.18 installed and occasionally fire it up, but it now has problems on most of the modern web pages and sites and is basically unusable.]

Slimjet is done by the same people who do the Firefox-related Slim browser. It is another Chrome clone that has probably removed and deactivated all of the "report to Google" features. Slimjet has some interesting customizations (based on the ancient history of Slim originally being an overlay interface for Internet Explorer!) but essentially it works just as well as the other chromium based browsers. It is not updated as often as the others though, and occasionally I have noticed a bit of hesitation and slowness sometimes in this browser---but no problems of major consequence.

Vivaldi is another Chrome clone that has probably removed and deactivated all of the "report to Google" features. Vivaldi was founded and is operated by many of the original Opera people. As such they still have that 'independent' mindset. As a result even though they are using the chromium base and can make use of the Chrome extensions, the browser has many customization aspects that the other chromium-based browsers lack. It is updated continuously and it works very well.

Another chromium-based browser that I have installed is Epic. Like the Tor browser it is very concerned about privacy. (See " https://www.epicbrowser.com/ " and " https://www.epicbrowser.com/privacy/intro.html ".) Like Tor I consider it a mostly special purposes browser and only use it when I need to. It is not updated as regularly as the other chromium-based browsers but it still performs just as well as the others. But like Tor because of some of the automatic privacy features it may not work well on sites heavily dependant on cookies, popups, and other such features.

There are other browsers out there. I have not tried Brave or Chromium. The latter may still be too close to Chrome and Google for my tastes so I have never tried it. Brave has its supporters and eventually I may give it a trial run---but my current rotation is probably too much as it is! (Smile)

Do I have any favorites out of all of these? I like the way that Vivaldi feels and works on my computer. Before Vivaldi I liked the way that Opera felt too. For manifold customizations Vivaldi and Opera probably lead the pack since both of them are run by people who formerly worked for the old Opera. (Again, I was an original Opera fan and user!) Edge has come on stronger in the last year or so and they will probably get even better.

The Firefox-related browsers pretty much all feel and work the same. In terms of feeling and perhaps looking similarly to SeaMonkey, PaleMoon probably comes the closest. Yet one should keep in mind that the PaleMoon extensions have to be unique, and most extensions today seem heavily oriented towards either the Firefox-related browsers or the Chrome-related browsers.

Hopefully some of the above will give you some insights! But SeaMonkey is not and will not be easily replaced!

v_v

ndebord

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Post Posted September 25th, 2021, 12:57 pm

Peter Creasey wrote:I hate to contemplate this, but if it becomes necessary to consider a browser other than SeaMonkey, what might be the best alternative to provide the same or similar browser capabilities as what SeaMonkey has always provided so wondrously?

Edge? Or what?


Yes, all of this below are kludges, but it allows you to continue to use SeaMonkey as the kitchen sink browser and easily invoke all your other browsers too.

XUL extensions let you have your cake and eat it too. Load these:

IE View [converted] (choose your Microsoft browser, I choice Edge Dev)
Open In Chrome [converted] (I chose Vivaldi, later Firefox)
Open With (menu with all your current browsers plus addons, I chose WaterFox)

My main toolbar has XUL icons for all of these plus Standalone SeaMonkey Mail which allows me to use the mail module to message URLS in either SeaMonkey or a browser of my own choosing.

Nick
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FrameWork, SeaMonkey(64-bit),Windows 10 Pro (X64- 21H1), WinPatrol, Malwarebytes & AVG Suite

Peter Creasey

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Post Posted September 25th, 2021, 4:54 pm

Nick, thanks. Sorry, but I run SM with basically no extensions and don't really relish launching an extension like you describe.

v_v Yes, I'm just inquiring about an alternative browser...not something to offer the same great SM suite capabilities.

I'm kind of surprised I haven't considered FireFox. I guess I'm not thrilled with some of their development decisions that I've heard about.

Thanks for the comments on Chrome. I'm glad to hear reasons to look elsewhere besides Chrome.

I share your high regard of Edge. That is the alternative I have leaned toward before now.

Thanks for the substantive and helpful info.
. . . . . . . . . . Pete

ndebord

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Post Posted September 25th, 2021, 7:59 pm

Peter Creasey wrote:Nick, thanks. Sorry, but I run SM with basically no extensions and don't really relish launching an extension like you describe.

v_v Yes, I'm just inquiring about an alternative browser...not something to offer the same great SM suite capabilities.

I'm kind of surprised I haven't considered FireFox. I guess I'm not thrilled with some of their development decisions that I've heard about.

Thanks for the comments on Chrome. I'm glad to hear reasons to look elsewhere besides Chrome.

I share your high regard of Edge. That is the alternative I have leaned toward before now.

Thanks for the substantive and helpful info.


Peter,

Everyone has their own way of running SeaMonkey, as it has so many available. I like XUL extensions and some of the modules came in real handy over time. I used Composer some years ago now to help with websites I was writing, so... <g>

Nick
-N- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
FrameWork, SeaMonkey(64-bit),Windows 10 Pro (X64- 21H1), WinPatrol, Malwarebytes & AVG Suite

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Post Posted September 26th, 2021, 12:10 am

Peter Creasey wrote:I hate to contemplate this, but if it becomes necessary to consider a browser other than SeaMonkey, what might be the best alternative to provide the same or similar browser capabilities as what SeaMonkey has always provided so wondrously?


If SeaMonkey ceased to be available I'd be forced to switch to Safari and Apple Mail on one of my macOS Mac minis. I've actually tested importing my SM mail spool dating from 1996 (when I was running Netscape Communicator on Win NT 3.51) into Apple Mail and ... complete success. I currently do most of my web browsing and all of my mail using SeaMonkey on a Mac mini running FreeBSD.

ndebord

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Post Posted September 26th, 2021, 7:24 am

Peter Creasey wrote:Nick, thanks. Sorry, but I run SM with basically no extensions and don't really relish launching an extension like you describe.

v_v Yes, I'm just inquiring about an alternative browser...not something to offer the same great SM suite capabilities.

I'm kind of surprised I haven't considered FireFox. I guess I'm not thrilled with some of their development decisions that I've heard about.

Thanks for the comments on Chrome. I'm glad to hear reasons to look elsewhere besides Chrome.

I share your high regard of Edge. That is the alternative I have leaned toward before now.

Thanks for the substantive and helpful info.


Peter,

IF you are considering Firefox, you might want to start with a portable version until such time as you are happy with it.

https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable

Nick
-N- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
FrameWork, SeaMonkey(64-bit),Windows 10 Pro (X64- 21H1), WinPatrol, Malwarebytes & AVG Suite

Peter Creasey

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Post Posted September 26th, 2021, 8:16 am

ndebord wrote:IF you are considering Firefox


Thanks. If it becomes necessary (sadly?), how hard is it to transition from SeaMonkey to Firefox?
. . . . . . . . . . Pete

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Post Posted September 26th, 2021, 2:44 pm

It is still possible to use many of the legacy Firefox extensions in Pale Moon (or White Star, if you use a Mac). All that is needed is to add Pale Moon information to install.rdf in the extension. You can get that information from any Pale Moon theme.

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Post Posted September 27th, 2021, 5:34 am

Peter,

Importing bookmarks is relatively easy. Simply export your SeaMonkey bookmarks as an .html file and then in whichever browser you choose import that .html file. Beyond bookmarks other browser settings (browsing history, passwords, cookies, extensions, other data, etc) may or may not be possible. In all of the browsers that I listed they give options for importing some data from several other browsers, however SeaMonkey is not ever listed as one of the choices! So bookmarks are easy, everything else might be questionable or not possible.

Peter Creasey

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Post Posted September 27th, 2021, 6:44 am

Good. Importing bookmarks is quite valuable, importing other data less so to me.
. . . . . . . . . . Pete

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