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Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes

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Frank Lion

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Post Posted September 1st, 2016, 10:53 pm

Email from AMO - https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... rm?c=0&w=1

Go reinvent my backside.
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

ehume

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Post Posted September 2nd, 2016, 3:50 pm

How long do we wait before they kill everything, I wonder.
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Frank Lion

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Post Posted September 2nd, 2016, 4:13 pm

ehume wrote:How long do we wait before they kill everything, I wonder.

Well, I stopped waiting last December, which was when they planned and announced to shut them down and I think many others did as well. So, I was a bit surprised to see this survey pop up now.

I can only see this as some sort of weak 'outreach' thing, rather than any serious attempt to solve this. I also think that non-performance/marketshare related payments are a dangerous thing as they make people stop trying or caring - just like Mozilla seems to have done.

Pity, but that's life.
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

patrickjdempsey

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Post Posted November 28th, 2016, 3:15 pm

Frank Lion wrote:Email from AMO - https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... rm?c=0&w=1

Go reinvent my backside.


Thanks. My opinions that they've been ignoring for 8 years have again been submitted.
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Frank Lion

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Post Posted March 8th, 2017, 1:39 pm

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

ehume

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Post Posted March 8th, 2017, 6:39 pm

Thanks, Frank. Looks pretty sketchy (in the original sense). One nice thing: in The Future of Firefox it says a goal will be to make future icons SVG. That will save me a lot of efforts since a good hunk of my themes are all about largeness.

In New Themes in Firefox - FAQ:

We expect to end support for Complete Themes in Firefox 57, due for release in November 2017. Some Complete Themes may find it feasible to use the “experimental” CSS support in the new theme system, and the ability to be layered on top of the default Firefox theme means avoiding compatibility headaches for the parts of the default theme you don’t want to change.


Guess we'll have to discuss this.
Firefox: Sic transit gloria mundi.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted March 9th, 2017, 2:33 am

ehume wrote:Thanks, Frank. Looks pretty sketchy (in the original sense). One nice thing: in The Future of Firefox it says a goal will be to make future icons SVG. That will save me a lot of efforts since a good hunk of my themes are all about largeness..

Hi Ed,

Hopefully, for your sake, I'm wrong on this but they don't mean SVG in the way you mean SVG. You're thinking images that can resize without quality drop, but they're not.

To them, using svg is a simplistic coding method of making icons, as they've never been that great at making conventional graphics and that's all. Plus, the UI buttons will be in fixed positions and will not be able to use different image-region.

I'm basing this on the Chrome UI - fixed position, fixed size UI buttons and also my personal experiences of making Linux OS themes, which do allow window manager folder/application icons to be different sizes, but fixed position, fixed size UI buttons.

You can even see it in Thunderbird these days - the Windows version use conventional png icons and the Linux version a very simplistic svg set, that look like 'potato stamps'. I'll spell it out, in the same way that I can write svg code to colororize, lighten, darken, etc. stuff, you can also generate simplistic svg icon shapes just with code. Obviously, you can also make 'proper' svg graphics, using Xara, Inkscape, etc. if you know how.

As for the UI itself, I reckon I already know how limiting that will be from making a couple of Linux OS themes and know their gtk2/gtk3 theme code and methods. In Firefox, it'll be hard to do much with them as the options are so restrictive. Think 'Mr Potato Head' and your choices of one of three noses, one of two hats, etc and you'll get the idea. Just depends on how easily pleased you are, really.

This train really has left the station, Ed.

...and the ability to be layered on top of the default Firefox theme means avoiding compatibility headaches for the parts of the default theme you don’t want to change.


Fascinating, I wonder where they ever got the idea from to do that? :P
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

ehume

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Post Posted March 9th, 2017, 8:45 am

Thank you. I guess they still allow PNG icons of differing dimensions, so little will change. But I wonder if we will be able to put icons on menus.
Firefox: Sic transit gloria mundi.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted March 9th, 2017, 9:02 am

ehume wrote:Thank you. I guess they still allow PNG icons of differing dimensions, so little will change.

Nope, that's precisely what will change!

You're used to supplying the icons and -moz-image-regions to go with them and their states. However, in Chrome, K-Meleon, Quipzilla, Linux, etc. those -moz-image-regions are chosen by the program or OS and definitely not by you...and I reckon Firefox will be doing the same. So if, for example, the program uses 22x22 (or 16x16 even) then it's that or smaller.

Ed, I'm trying to get across that the entire innards of Firefox will be changed and that's why I keep talking about other programs with the same kind of innards and coding as Firefox will have, see?
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

ehume

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Post Posted March 9th, 2017, 9:38 am

Oy! Where can I get info on what will change for us? I haven't tried theming for Chrome so I know nothing about it. Where does one get info on where the program looks for certain info, for example? Must our icon files now include info on icon sizes? Etc.
Firefox: Sic transit gloria mundi.

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Post Posted March 9th, 2017, 9:44 am

On one hand, it makes things more futureproof I guess (can't break what you can't edit), though it's basically an extension of Chrome themes. Take a look at the engineering plan for just how limited this will be. Key phrases such as "Extend Lightweight Themes" and "Google Chrome theme parity" are quite prominent there.

As for using SVGs I'd imagine this is to make things easier for HiDPI, since at the moment the default theme provides two PNGs for everything (well, everything they remember to look at) to account for HiDPI. The flat design, while easier to code, is playing right in line with the current design trends that everyone seems to be following.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted March 9th, 2017, 10:23 am

ehume wrote:Oy! Where can I get info on what will change for us?

Pretty much as Lootyhoof wrote, I reckon. I haven't followed this stuff at all these days, but noticed that above link the other day so thought it might be of interest here.

Don't forget, I haven't used Firefox in well over 2 years now.
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

ehume

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Post Posted March 9th, 2017, 1:53 pm

Frank Lion wrote:Don't forget, I haven't used Firefox in well over 2 years now.
There are some extensions and my theme that are lacking on Chrome.
Firefox: Sic transit gloria mundi.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted March 9th, 2017, 2:16 pm

ehume wrote:
Frank Lion wrote:Don't forget, I haven't used Firefox in well over 2 years now.
There are some extensions and my theme that are lacking on Chrome.

Sounds like you think I use Chrome? Have a look at the links in my sig and guess what browser I use. :P

Not that it matters to me theme-wise, I'll theme anything that keeps still long enough if it amuses me to.

But, on a personal level, I've always thought that browser programs have far too much importance attached to them, so I'm damned if I'm going to use a program that tries to torment me in the pretty simple sole task of just displaying websites, so that rules out Firefox and Chrome.

I've settled on 'just works' and get on with more important things.
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

grrmoz
 
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Post Posted March 25th, 2017, 2:16 pm

Lootyhoof wrote:On one hand, it makes things more futureproof I guess (can't break what you can't edit), though it's basically an extension of Chrome themes. Take a look at the engineering plan for just how limited this will be. Key phrases such as "Extend Lightweight Themes" and "Google Chrome theme parity" are quite prominent there.



They might as well just rename firefox chromefox at this point. Ever since ver 4.x they have been steering in that direction anyway. Pisses me off b/c I absolutely cannot stand chrome, and year after year they keep chipping away at the things that used to separate itself from chrome.

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