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Back & Forward mouse-click-movement as in Opera?

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agerhard
 
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Post Posted November 12th, 2002, 1:51 pm

Hello there,

is there a way to enable Phoenix offering the Back & Forward mouse-click-feature of Opera:

Back: Hold right mouse button & click left
Forward: Hold left mouse button & click right

I got so used to it, that I really don't want to miss it! :-(

Just for clarification: I am not talking about mouse gestures!

Any hints welcome :-)

agerhard

Thumper

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Post Posted November 12th, 2002, 1:54 pm

Actually, you are. The latest version of Mouse Gestures has 'chord gesture' (hold left, click right etc.) support.

- Chris

hiTCH-HiKER
 
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Post Posted November 12th, 2002, 4:13 pm

thumperward wrote:Actually, you are. The latest version of Mouse Gestures has 'chord gesture' (hold left, click right etc.) support.

- Chris



Would be nice to see this feature in Phoenix itself, because the "rocker gesture" in Mouse Gestures plugin only works once and not multiple times like in Opera (hold left, click right multiple times etc.)

Thumper

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Post Posted November 12th, 2002, 6:09 pm

It doesn't belong in Phoenix. It belongs in Mouse Gestures. If it fails to work the way you Opera boys like it, go tell them about it.

- Chris

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Post Posted November 12th, 2002, 7:10 pm

thumperward wrote:It doesn't belong in Phoenix. It belongs in Mouse Gestures. If it fails to work the way you Opera boys like it, go tell them about it.

- Chris


I did already, hope that helps.
And btw. this does belong in Phoenix, because this is a must-have option for a good browser and there shouldn't be the need for a plugin.

clav
 
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Post Posted November 12th, 2002, 7:17 pm

yes its a good feature, but not everyone will want it, and it may confuse newbies. It is an excellent example of what to put into an extension

djnr

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Post Posted November 12th, 2002, 7:20 pm

Check this mouse gesture out:

1) Move mouse pointer to top lft corner of browser window.
2) Click on left arrow. Multiple clicks are allowed.

I realize that what you suggest would be a lot less cumbersome... but only for the very few who found out about it.

I'm finding the typeahead find a great way to keep my hands on the keyboard, from where I can easily go back with the backspace key, so personally I have little interest in the mouse gesture. Just have to break the habit of reaching for that stupid mouse...

hiTCH-HiKER
 
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Post Posted November 12th, 2002, 8:30 pm

djnrempel wrote:Check this mouse gesture out:

1) Move mouse pointer to top lft corner of browser window.
2) Click on left arrow. Multiple clicks are allowed.

I realize that what you suggest would be a lot less cumbersome... but only for the very few who found out about it.

I'm finding the typeahead find a great way to keep my hands on the keyboard, from where I can easily go back with the backspace key, so personally I have little interest in the mouse gesture. Just have to break the habit of reaching for that stupid mouse...


I doubt that you own a wheel mouse, because then you would use it a lot... there is no point in not implementing atleast the "rocker gesture", because it is one of the greatest innovations recently coded into a browser!
Everyone who is used to it will agree with me and it is no argument that you personally prefer using the keyboard.

djnr

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Post Posted November 12th, 2002, 8:52 pm

It does sound pretty cool for the mouse-users, and although I'm totally ignorant on the coding it doesn't sound like it would be a huge feature bloat-wise. If it were available as a single extension I would definitely try it out. I'd also welcome it in the browser, IF it were economical code-wise.

Stefan

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Post Posted November 12th, 2002, 11:35 pm

hiTCH-HiKER wrote:I doubt that you own a wheel mouse, because then you would use it a lot...


Keyboard has Page up/down...

shanatk
 
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Post Posted November 13th, 2002, 5:01 am

[quote="clav"]yes its a good feature, but not everyone will want it, and it may confuse newbies. It is an excellent example of what to put into an extension[/quote]


almost everyone i have introduced to phoenix, are all IE users.
none of them have ever seen something like mouse gestures before.
and mouse gestures was easily the coolest thing that they had seen. tabbed browsing etc comes later for them. once they start using it themselves.

basically, when i try to convert people from IE to phoenix i do this

1) i send them to www.dms100.org/worksucks/ and watch them scream as IE trashes their computer.

2) then i show them how phoenix responds to popups. and image blocking. (altho that isn't perfect yet)

3) then i show them mouse gestures. that impresses them, :D

this 5 minute demonstration (excluding the computer restart) is enough. they are converts now, and are spreading the word.

what i would like to see,
mouse gestures packaged with phoenix (as an extension tho). however the default option should be that it is disabled. and use 'tip of the day' stuff to inform users about this cool thing so they can enable it with a single click in preferences. how many newbies are going to download it. if there isnt anything attractive to start with, why would they want to switch? and like it or not, mouse gestures is one of the coolest things about mozilla and phoenix. and it is not 'that big'. please consider including it. i make it a point to include it with every zip file i pass around to my friends.
no one i know who uses IE has any idea about mouse gestures. and i do not know any opera users personally.
btw, i live in india.

in happiness.

hiTCH-HiKER
 
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Post Posted November 13th, 2002, 6:42 am

Stefan wrote:
hiTCH-HiKER wrote:I doubt that you own a wheel mouse, because then you would use it a lot...


Keyboard has Page up/down...


I use that, too ;)
But I doubt that you are using the keyboard to follow a link... and if my right hand is already on the mouse, I won't bother moving it or the left one to the Page up/down keys... I like it optimized as much as possible and thats the way Phoenix should go!

hiTCH-HiKER
 
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Post Posted November 13th, 2002, 6:47 am

shanatk wrote:if there isnt anything attractive to start with, why would they want to switch?


This is the point! Phoenix needs to implement all cool innovations that don't bloat the code (a rocker gesture won't for sure) and if possible a lot of new innovations which are unique.
I want the best and coolest browser on earth, so I can convince everybody to switch to Phoenix!

Ted Mielczarek
 
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Post Posted November 13th, 2002, 7:08 am

hiTCH-HiKER wrote:
Stefan wrote:
hiTCH-HiKER wrote:I doubt that you own a wheel mouse, because then you would use it a lot...


Keyboard has Page up/down...


I use that, too ;)
But I doubt that you are using the keyboard to follow a link... and if my right hand is already on the mouse, I won't bother moving it or the left one to the Page up/down keys... I like it optimized as much as possible and thats the way Phoenix should go!


You can browse entirely with the keyboard using type-ahead find, or caret mode. Some would say this is more optimized than using mouse gestures.

asa

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Post Posted November 13th, 2002, 9:38 am

hiTCH-HiKER wrote:<snip>Phoenix needs to implement all cool innovations that don't bloat the code <snip>


Even if one innovation doesn't add _much_ to the codesize (static and dynamic footprint), "all cool innovations" sounds to me like adding more than one and when you get into adding lots of little things, each of which individually doesn't add a lot to footprint, they tend to add up when you look at them in total. Most great features can be built as extensions.

In an ideal world we'd have a default install that was lean and mean with just the _right_ feature set to attract the largest audience without overloading the app from a footprint, performance or usability standpoint. That doesn't mean it's going to be without features. Right now Phoenix has a similarly large feature set as the Mozilla browser.

Back to the ideal world. Beyond that default install we'd have an easy mechanism for adding "all cool innovations" to the product. I could imagine a first launch startup page that had 30 of the most popular extensions, each wich a checkbox next to the name. A user could read down the list of extensions and their descriptions, checking off any that he was interested in and at the bottom of the page hit an "install" button and have it install them in one click of the mouse.

A system like this, where Phoenix provides a great set of defaults (not a bare bones browser), the set optimized to attract the largest possible audience and without sacrificing size, speed and usability, while also providing a clean and simple mechanism for extending the default functionality, isn't too difficult to imagine. The product already supports installation of XPI extensions and themes and has some simple management tools for enabling and disabling installed extensions as well as theme uninstall.

What's missing? Not a lot; we're pretty close to that ideal world. First, we need to settle on the default set for Phoenix and make sure that those features are the right set to attract the most users. This means excluding features which don't advance that goal. Then we need more "cool innovations". There are certainly some great ones already available but I doubt we've got "all cool innovations" just yet ;-) We need Phoenix to stabilize and provide more hooks for extension developers so that they can more easily integrate and so that they aren't broken every few weeks. We may need XPUninstall, which turns out to be a pretty difficult problem and may not happen for some time (I think we can live without uninstall as long as "disable" works well). And lastly we need to let people know that this _is_ going to be (if it's not already) the "best and coolest browser on earth" :)

You may be right that one particular feature doesn't add a lot of "bloat" (which I'll assume means size on disk, size in memory, and impact on performance or some combination of those three) but unless that one feature adds to the goal of providing the features that the largest audience will want with the least impact on size, speed and usability, then it probably shouldn't be a part of the default package.

--Asa

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