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Global theme?

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puidon
 
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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 12:58 am

I have noticed that there is a difference when installing the <a href="http://www1.freewebs.com/phoenity/#">Phoenity Theme</a> and
the <a href="http://themes.mozdev.org/themes/pinball.html">Pinball</a>.

The Phoenity allow me to set Global theme by clicking ok when install but the pinball one doesn't have that popup.

Is that related to the extension? (Phoenity has xpi while Pinball has jar)

djst
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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 1:54 am

puidon wrote:I have noticed that there is a difference when installing the <a href="http://www1.freewebs.com/phoenity/#">Phoenity Theme</a> and
the <a href="http://themes.mozdev.org/themes/pinball.html">Pinball</a>.

The Phoenity allow me to set Global theme by clicking ok when install but the pinball one doesn't have that popup.

Is that related to the extension? (Phoenity has xpi while Pinball has jar)


According to <a href="http://www.mozillazine.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=255&highlight=xpi">this thread</a>, the use of XPI installers for themes should be avoided, since they are a potential security risk. The ideal would be if every theme author just packaged the jar file and then used javascript to install it.

cdn

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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 5:55 am

as Kairo mentioned somewhere else, .jar files are quite capable of installing a chrome virus, should one ever get written, although with a jar installation, it should only affect that profile

asa

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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 10:47 am

cdn wrote:as Kairo mentioned somewhere else, .jar files are quite capable of installing a chrome virus, should one ever get written, although with a jar installation, it should only affect that profile

Nothing is 100% but it's pretty darn clear that the developers building Mozilla made the decision to make several differnt kinds of installs for several different purposes. We have theme installs and sidebar panel installs which are hopefully safe enough that lots of people will (and should) feel comfortable using them. Then we have XPInstall which as far as I can see is actually _less_ useful than theme install (which has an explicit mechanism for "and use this theme") for installing themes but in recent months seems to have been popularized.
Theme install is _clearly_ safer to the overall integrity of the user's system than XPI. Talk of a chrome virus which doesn't exists and even if it did would have far less devastating effects than a simple XPI designed to wipe out important system files just adds to the danger that someone will get clobbered by a nasty XPI. There's just no question that one mechanism for installing themes is a lot more dangerous. Encouraging users to get comfortable and relaxed clicking OK on scores of XPInstalls is, in my opinion, a very bad idea.

--Asa
"You'd PAY to know what you REALLY think." --Dobbs 1961

djst
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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 11:18 am

asa wrote:Then we have XPInstall which as far as I can see is actually _less_ useful than theme install (which has an explicit mechanism for "and use this theme")


I've never got the "use this theme" option to work, neither on Mozilla nor Phoenix. It doesn't matter if you check that option, you have to manually switch theme anyway.
Last edited by djst on November 25th, 2002, 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

alanjstr
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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 12:12 pm

djst wrote:
cdn wrote:Then we have XPInstall which as far as I can see is actually _less_ useful than theme install (which has an explicit mechanism for "and use this theme")


I've never got the "use this theme" option to work, neither on Mozilla nor Phoenix. It doesn't matter if you check that option, you have to manually switch theme anyway.


The Pinball posted on mozdev uses a .jar. The Pinball posted to this forum uses a .xpi. The latter asks whether it is going to be global or local. The forrmer asks if I want to use it "right now". "Right now" never worked for me. I don't know if David James knows about the explicit skin installer.

asa

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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 12:42 pm

djst wrote:
asa wrote:Then we have XPInstall which as far as I can see is actually _less_ useful than theme install (which has an explicit mechanism for "and use this theme")


I've never got the "use this theme" option to work, neither on Mozilla nor Phoenix. It doesn't matter if you check that option, you have to manually switch theme anyway.

I think it's broken, then, or explicitely turned off (probably because Mozilla disabled dynamic theme switching). Phoenix doesn't disable dynamic theme switching, buggy as it is, so we should probably figure out how to re-enable that checkbox to get it working. I swear that I've had it work in Phoenix builds in the past.

--Asa
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David James

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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 1:31 pm

alanjstr wrote:
The Pinball posted on mozdev uses a .jar. The Pinball posted to this forum uses a .xpi. The latter asks whether it is going to be global or local. The forrmer asks if I want to use it "right now". "Right now" never worked for me. I don't know if David James knows about the explicit skin installer.


Right now never worked for me either...

I could probably figure it out... but my main problem with .jars is that Phoenix apparently doesn't know what to do with them on their own. Suppose I download the Pinball .jar so I'll always have it when upgrading my profile or testing a profile on that other OS... I can't "open" it like I can an XPI. The entire reason I packaged it as an XPI is because someone asked what to do with the original Pinball .jar when they upgraded their profile. Making an XPI is *more* work but its advantage is independentness of install (there seems to be a slight size advantage as well).

I suppose I can make the Pinball .jar available for explicit install (not for awhile mind for other time reasons) and put the necessary scripting on the install page but I'd like to know just how I am supposed to install these things when they're on their own.
Pinball-Firefox maintainer.
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alanjstr
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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 1:33 pm

asa wrote: I swear that I've had it work in Phoenix builds in the past.

--Asa


Hmmm. It's been a white since I've used the explicit function, since I use the 'new' Pinball. Damn, so many skins have switched to XPI. Can XPI call the explicit function?

I did have a checkbox for "use this theme" but it didn't do anything. Not only that, but clicking Cancel on thad dialog didn't Cancel.

alanjstr
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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 1:42 pm

David James wrote:
alanjstr wrote:
The Pinball posted on mozdev uses a .jar. The Pinball posted to this forum uses a .xpi. The latter asks whether it is going to be global or local. The forrmer asks if I want to use it "right now". "Right now" never worked for me. I don't know if David James knows about the explicit skin installer.


Right now never worked for me either...

I could probably figure it out... but my main problem with .jars is that Phoenix apparently doesn't know what to do with them on their own. Suppose I download the Pinball .jar so I'll always have it when upgrading my profile or testing a profile on that other OS... I can't "open" it like I can an XPI. The entire reason I packaged it as an XPI is because someone asked what to do with the original Pinball .jar when they upgraded their profile. Making an XPI is *more* work but its advantage is independentness of install (there seems to be a slight size advantage as well).

I suppose I can make the Pinball .jar available for explicit install (not for awhile mind for other time reasons) and put the necessary scripting on the install page but I'd like to know just how I am supposed to install these things when they're on their own.


For a while I had created my own html page to install the Pinball jar from my HD just to use the function.

Yeah, having an xpi makes it more 'reusable'. So can an XPI call

InstallTrigger.installChrome(InstallTrigger.SKIN, 'http://www.mozdev.org.uk/rsync/themes/phoenix/phoenix-pinball_20021023.jar', '1.0.4|1.0.4|2002-10-23')

asa

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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 4:38 pm

David James wrote:I suppose I can make the Pinball .jar available for explicit install (not for awhile mind for other time reasons) and put the necessary scripting on the install page but I'd like to know just how I am supposed to install these things when they're on their own.


If a prominent theme page like David Tenser's or mozdev included a simple mechanism like http://www.eightlines.com/neil/mozskin/installjar.html at the foot of the theme page that would work. Remember that most people aren't destroying their profiles every few days like the testing community so it's not critical for them. For those of us that are constantly deleting their profiles at tool like that makes life a lot easier.

--Asa
"You'd PAY to know what you REALLY think." --Dobbs 1961

djst
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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 5:50 pm

asa wrote:
David James wrote:I suppose I can make the Pinball .jar available for explicit install (not for awhile mind for other time reasons) and put the necessary scripting on the install page but I'd like to know just how I am supposed to install these things when they're on their own.


If a prominent theme page like David Tenser's or mozdev included a simple mechanism like http://www.eightlines.com/neil/mozskin/installjar.html at the foot of the theme page that would work. Remember that most people aren't destroying their profiles every few days like the testing community so it's not critical for them. For those of us that are constantly deleting their profiles at tool like that makes life a lot easier.

--Asa


Rest assured, I will add that feature as soon as people start to distribute their themes in jars instead of xpi:s.

David James

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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 6:09 pm

djst wrote:
asa wrote:
If a prominent theme page like David Tenser's or mozdev included a simple mechanism like http://www.eightlines.com/neil/mozskin/installjar.html at the foot of the theme page that would work. Remember that most people aren't destroying their profiles every few days like the testing community so it's not critical for them. For those of us that are constantly deleting their profiles at tool like that makes life a lot easier.

--Asa


Rest assured, I will add that feature as soon as people start to distribute their themes in jars instead of xpi:s.


What we have here is a chicken-and-egg situation... at any rate, the next release of Pinball, due sometime after the 15th of December, will be made available as a .jar. We should probably post something about this on the Themes Forum.
Pinball-Firefox maintainer.
http://david.jamesnet.ca/
Debian Sid, KDE 3.3

djst
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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 6:13 pm

David James wrote:
djst wrote:
asa wrote:
If a prominent theme page like David Tenser's or mozdev included a simple mechanism like http://www.eightlines.com/neil/mozskin/installjar.html at the foot of the theme page that would work. Remember that most people aren't destroying their profiles every few days like the testing community so it's not critical for them. For those of us that are constantly deleting their profiles at tool like that makes life a lot easier.

--Asa


Rest assured, I will add that feature as soon as people start to distribute their themes in jars instead of xpi:s.


What we have here is a chicken-and-egg situation... at any rate, the next release of Pinball, due sometime after the 15th of December, will be made available as a .jar. We should probably post something about this on the Themes Forum.


Yeah, and I'm currently encouraging all authors to just send me links to the .jar instead of .xpi. If lynchknow and cheeaun starts to distribute .jar's, almost 50% of the themes will be using .jar's already! :)

David James

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Post Posted November 25th, 2002, 6:19 pm

asa wrote:
David James wrote:I suppose I can make the Pinball .jar available for explicit install (not for awhile mind for other time reasons) and put the necessary scripting on the install page but I'd like to know just how I am supposed to install these things when they're on their own.


If a prominent theme page like David Tenser's or mozdev included a simple mechanism like http://www.eightlines.com/neil/mozskin/installjar.html at the foot of the theme page that would work. Remember that most people aren't destroying their profiles every few days like the testing community so it's not critical for them. For those of us that are constantly deleting their profiles at tool like that makes life a lot easier.


Thanks for the link Asa. I'll be putting something like it on my own page in the future as well on my own machine for my own purposes. More usefully perhaps I'll modify my theme howto to include a strong recommendation that themes be packaged as a .jar only with an explanation of how to do set them up for installation.

Still, the answer to my question is essentially no - there isn't a way to just "open" up a .jar in Phoenix.
Pinball-Firefox maintainer.
http://david.jamesnet.ca/
Debian Sid, KDE 3.3

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