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Firefox will become the only safe browser on Windows 10

Discussion of general topics about Mozilla Firefox
Puppy2012
 
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Post Posted December 4th, 2018, 4:09 am

Congrats Mozilla, we need you more than ever to stay on the safe (= Google free) side.

Microsoft is building a Chromium-powered web browser that will replace Edge on Windows 10

frg
 
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Post Posted December 4th, 2018, 6:29 am

A big part of $542 million is not exactly google free :)
https://www.cnet.com/news/google-firefo ... h-privacy/

But the ceo only gets 2.3 from it... So non profit indeed.

tomatoshadow2

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Post Posted December 4th, 2018, 9:48 am

Yes, Gecko must keep going!

mightyglydd

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Post Posted December 4th, 2018, 10:41 am

Why? :-k Who cares if a V8 Moto Guzzi engine's 'powering' a browser as long as it performs to the satisfaction of the user.
#KeepFightingMichael

lasardo
 
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Post Posted December 4th, 2018, 11:16 am

Here is a good article about why multiple browser engines existing is important: https://css-tricks.com/the-ecological-i ... diversity/

If one browser is popular, there is a risk they will use Microsoft's famous strategy of "embrace extend and extinguish" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_ ... extinguish to destroy competition. At first glance it seems like since Blink, the Chrome engine is open source, that things are ok since its code can be adopted by other software. But, there is a catch - the most obvious is patents, H.264 and DRM. Chrome can be made to play video - let's say they include an H.264 codec or a method of playing DRM-ed video. Because of patents, lets say that player can't be part of the open source part of the engine. Their popularity can make that codec or form of DRM the standard for video, and could make it impossible to play video from popular sources with other browsers. By Chrome including an H.264 codec and their popularity, they have made this a reality on Linux - it is impossible to (legally) play video on many sites with any browser other than Chrome.

As another example, there is a plugin to use DRM-ed Netflix with Firefox. But with Firefox marketshare what it is, there is no guarantee that that will continue to exist. Imagine trying to promote Firefox to friends if it can't play Netflix, or suppose the situation is similar for other streaming like Disney or HBO.

Puppy2012
 
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Post Posted December 4th, 2018, 12:07 pm

lasardo wrote:If one browser is popular, there is a risk they will use Microsoft's famous strategy of "embrace extend and extinguish"

Exaclty. The W3C standard is the only thing that is important, not a particular (and in this case very bad) implementation. And Google is extremely untrustworthy subject because all its profit comes from selling user data for targeted ads, unlike Microsoft or Apple that still sells products and services in the first place.

Don't mention absolutely ridiculous approach to the security that Google exhibits in their Android OS without any single effort to improve the situation.

Brummelchen
 
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Post Posted December 4th, 2018, 12:21 pm

MS also collects user stats - but calls it "telemetry" - where is the difference? and both is only opt out.
the major problem is that Edge has a reliable engine because windows is using it for its own web-view - thats why edge and ie starts fast, because windows has loaded the engine till booting... edge has another problem - it is stuck, either in features and extensions.

chromium/blink has it all allready - decent engine, can limited with gpo, where firefox is still in its infancy.
re-inventing the wheel makes no sense, Microsoft is going WAAS and Cloud with Nadella - there is no money left to invent another major browser.

its the only choice. but what some noted is that the edge engine like now should be held as a fallback. however...

Puppy2012
 
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Post Posted December 4th, 2018, 12:32 pm

Brummelchen wrote:MS also collects user stats - but calls it "telemetry" - where is the difference?

Big, the telemetry is to improve the product and doesn't contain any personal data (you can read long and detailed analysis created by a Linux user here) because Microsoft still sells products and services. Microsoft revenue share from ads is ~10%, Google 99%, draw your conclusion.

Microsoft also delivers security patches to all devices (including Windows 10 Mobile) within 24 hours unlike Google where most of its devices remains unpatched for months or the whole lifetime and there is no single effort to improve the situation.

earther

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Post Posted December 5th, 2018, 4:39 pm

Speaking of telemetry and other such things . . . https://www.eff.org/the-end-of-trust Page 226 was a real eyeopener.

We are in deep doo-doo . . .

therube

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Post Posted December 5th, 2018, 7:02 pm

the telemetry is to improve the product and doesn't contain any personal data

Don't be so naive ;-).
I recently, last few days, have had a look at Win10 & it makes me sick.

PS: Mozilla is following MS's playbook to a T :-).


Microsoft also delivers security patches to all devices (including Windows 10 Mobile) within 24 hours

I guess a "security patch" is different from an actual (correctly) working OS.
(And once again, Mozilla has followed that path too.)



Trust, yeah, now isn't that funny.
There was a time when you could basically "trust" MS to do the right thing (as far as its users were concerned).
But then, there also was a time when you could basically "trust" Mozilla to do the right thing.

Alas, that boat has sailed.


Notice any corollaries there? MS, Mozilla. MS, Mozilla. MS, Mozilla.
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.19) Gecko/20110420 SeaMonkey/2.0.14 Pinball CopyURL+ FetchTextURL FlashGot NoScript

tomatoshadow2

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Post Posted December 6th, 2018, 12:35 am

Yes I see your point @therube, just going to always be sticking with Firefox for myself. Gecko can hopefully keep improving.

LoveMyFoxy

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Post Posted December 9th, 2018, 11:46 pm

TheRube: "Alas, that boat has sailed.
Notice any corollaries there? MS, Mozilla. MS, Mozilla. MS, Mozilla."


I've already removed all the telemetry from both FF and Win7. In FF, you just empty the 2 folders and make them Read-Only.
The boat has sailed only if you switched to Win10, but some of us are slow to get new OS's, and I used XP safely for 4 years after security updates stopped.

Interestingly, I was on another forum yesterday where they were likening MS to Mozilla. Some of those folks have NEVER installed any Win7 updates, have had no security problems, and like the way it runs.
2 Desktops--Win 7 Ult. 64-bit, 6GB RAM /FF 52ESR 64/ Thunderbird 52 / MS Sec. Essent./ Windows firewall / Verizon FIOS wired network

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