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Verizon email on AOL servers not sending

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LoveMyFoxy

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Post Posted October 29th, 2020, 10:25 pm

Thunderbird 52.9.1ESR --3 accounts
Verizon mail using the AOL servers
........................................................
Today all 3 email accounts stopped sending. Receiving is fine, and webmail works fine.

So I found this:
https://help.aol.com/articles/allow-app ... re-sign-in
scroll down to Thunderbird.

Removing and rebuilding 3 accounts isn't easy. I have to screenshot every setting because some are strange. Is there a way around this? Webmail isn't an acceptable option. Neither is moving to a newer TB without XUL extensions.
2 Desktops--Win 7 Ult.SP1 x64/6GB RAM /Firefox 52.9ESR/Waterfox64 2020.9/Thunderbird 52.9ESR/Sticky Password/Verizon FIOS wired network

tanstaafl
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Post Posted October 30th, 2020, 1:45 am

I assume you're using IMAP accounts. Just switch the IMAP accounts and the SMTP server from using "normal password" to "Oauth2" for authentication rather than deleting and replacing the accounts. viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3063712 was a long thread about the mail yahoo, verizon, aol etc. sent out warning about changes that needed to be made by October 20.

Support for legacy (XUL/XPCOM based) add-ons started to be dropped with version 60, got much worse in version 68 and in version 78 was completely gone. OAuth2 support for Yahoo and AOL IMAP accounts was added in version 60. Thunderbird version 60 by default disabled any add-ons that don't explicitly state they support at least version 60. However, you can workaround that by setting extensions.strictCompatibility false.

I'm confused why you're still getting new mail but perhaps they haven't started enforcing the new requirements yet for the POP/IMAP servers, and only enforce it for the SMTP servers.

https://www.ghacks.net/2018/07/06/thund ... e-changes/

See http://kb.mozillazine.org/Go_back_to_an ... hunderbird for links to older versions of Thunderbird.

Most of the popular add-ons have not been rewritten to support the new API but the situation has noticeably improved. For example ImportExportTools NG now supports version 78. I suggest you browse thunderbird.net looking for potential replacements to see if version 78 might meet your needs. Sometimes the name is slightly changed due to somebody else rewriting a legacy add-on. For example CompactHeader" has been replaced by "Compact Headers".

LoveMyFoxy

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Post Posted October 30th, 2020, 6:17 pm

3 POP3 accounts.

Any and all Quantum versions don't fill my needs. This issue isn't about Quantum, but Verizon security with email via their AOL server. We've been using (Verizon's) AOL servers for a few years, and my mail behaved normally till today. They'll have to wrest my mouse from my cold, dead hands before I switch to webmail. I have 3 accounts for 3 diff online identities on one page, I have many subfolders that pre-sort inbox mail, a stack of filters, etc

I think #2 in the thread you cited applies to me, if it's not about IMAP, which I'm not familiar with. It's about using a 3rd party client to get mail, rather than webmail on the the email site. They're changing the security level.

"Option 3: You can generate a one-time, unique password ..." I already have all accounts passworded.

....
OK, suppose I choose #2. Can I save my profiles when I delete my accounts, and then drop them back in after I rebuild them? Will it undo the security upgrade? If so, which files should I save besides Address Books and Mail? I don't want to save the old security settings.
Last edited by LoveMyFoxy on October 30th, 2020, 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2 Desktops--Win 7 Ult.SP1 x64/6GB RAM /Firefox 52.9ESR/Waterfox64 2020.9/Thunderbird 52.9ESR/Sticky Password/Verizon FIOS wired network

tanstaafl
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Post Posted October 30th, 2020, 7:38 pm

I think you misunderstand the situation. Unless Verizon/AOL is lying its just a matter of time before your AOL/Verizon accounts breaks unless you switch to a more recent version of Thunderbird that supports OAuth2 (or you choose option #3)

If you used IMAP accounts the simplest solution would have been to ignore the poor advice from yahoo etc. , replace your current version of Thunderbird with version 60.9.1 and change the authentication methods to OAuth2. i.e. ignore the poor advice to delete and replace the accounts.

Since you're using POP accounts you could have installed 60.9.1, added IMAP accounts to duplicate your existing accounts (they can co-exist with POP accounts for the same email address), move the downloaded mail from the POP accounts to the IMAP accounts, and deleted the POP accounts.

Thunderbird version 68.5 or later supports using OAuth2 with Yahoo POP. I assume it also supports Verizon/AOL POP. Version 68 killed most of the support for legacy add-ons so basically you need to decide is good add-on support or using POP more important to you. But it sounds like you want to stick with both POP and 52.9.1 . That doesn't seem to leave you with any option other than #3 (one-time, unique password) because 52.9.1 doesn't support OAuth2. That seems like a poor solution to me.

Perhaps you should think about switching to a good email provider such as Gmail. Many support the email provider (not Thunderbird) automatically fetching mail from another mailbox using POP3 and merging it into your inbox. Thunderbird supports multiple identities that you can use to send mail using your Verizon/AOL email address. You'd have to spend some time configuring the new configuration and it would add a 5-10 minute delay before you see new mail but it should work fine and be transparent to anybody you exchange mail with. They'd have to look at the raw message source (so that they can see some headers that are normally hidden from view) to find out you were really using Gmail.

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Replace_sever ... ne_account was written for a more extreme scenario, but basically covers the steps you'd need if you want to do that.

If you decide to go to the trouble of changing email providers I suggest you first consider whether you want to get a inexpensive paid account instead with some company whose main business is email (so there are no conflicts of interest).

LoveMyFoxy

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Post Posted October 30th, 2020, 8:58 pm

I can't change providers and don't want to; Verizon is my ISP, and I use 2 of my 3 addresses for business and the 3rd for personal mail. (I use a different one for possibly sleazy websites.) The only other choice here would be Optimum or webmail. I've already said webmail is a non-choice.

OK, #3 temporarily. I've been using Thunderbird almost 20 years and I'm hooked. I already have passwords. Are they asking me to change them? All of them or only my primary address? After setting up my 3rd computer, and fixing 2 big bugs in my 2nd, I'll look into updating TB.

BTW--the email from Verizon about AOL was sent to all customers, not just ones using an old TB. Don't know why I threw it out.
2 Desktops--Win 7 Ult.SP1 x64/6GB RAM /Firefox 52.9ESR/Waterfox64 2020.9/Thunderbird 52.9ESR/Sticky Password/Verizon FIOS wired network

tanstaafl
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Post Posted October 30th, 2020, 9:27 pm

I was trying to explain that as long as you keep using the same ISP you can essentially change email providers while keeping the same email address. I used gmail as an example but most email providers provide the ability to periodically, automatically fetch email from another mailbox using POP and merge it into your inbox. Thunderbird provides the features needed to let you easily send and reply using your old email address.

Despite having 8 free accounts for about 20 years I've paid for an account with fastmail.com that I use as my main account. Its been worth it for the reliability, customer support and great spam detection. Fastmail seems popular in these forums, though not in the same league as yahoo, outlook and gmail. They also invented a new mail protocol (JMAP) that has become a official internet standard and that the Thunderbird engineering manager recently announced plans to add support for. Its meant as a modern, more efficient successor to IMAP.

POP accounts are download-centric. IMAP accounts are designed to let you read mail while keeping it stored on the mail server. They have a client server view of the world. The email client fetches a temporary copy of a message as needed from the server. This makes it much easier to use on multiple devices or share accounts. IMAP accounts have a lot more functionality than POP accounts. While Thunderbird will never drop POP support the market has clearly moved towards IMAP . This is helped by almost all smartphones using IMAP for email.

"OK, #3 temporarily. I already have 3 passwords. Are they asking me to change them?"
No. I believe they're asking you to create some temporary app passwords that you use instead.

WaltS48

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Post Posted October 31st, 2020, 6:36 am

I've had no problems using Verizon in any version of Thunderbird including 78.4.0.

The account was set up as POP3 because that is the only thing they offered and what the account wizard found in the ISPDB, no problem when they shut down their servers and moved to AOL servers.

Incoming server: pop.verizon.net
Port: 995
Connection security: SSL/TLS
Authentication method: Normal password

Outgoing Server: smtp.verizon.net
Port: 465
Username: username@verizon.net
Connection security: SSL/TLS
Authentication method: Normal password

I didn't have to change anything.

I did have to fix my AOL email account. That's the one with @aol.com or @aim.com as the provider.

HTH
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LoveMyFoxy

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Post Posted October 31st, 2020, 12:05 pm

tanstaafl wrote:I was trying to explain that as long as you keep using the same ISP you can essentially change email providers while keeping the same email address.announced plans to add support for. Its meant as a modern, more efficient successor to IMAP.

POP accounts are download-centric. IMAP accounts are designed to let you read mail while keeping it stored on the mail server. They have a client server view of the world. The email client fetches a temporary copy of a message as needed from the server. This makes it much easier to use on multiple devices or share accounts. IMAP accounts have a lot more functionality than POP accounts. While Thunderbird will never drop POP support the market has clearly moved towards IMAP . This is helped by almost all smartphones using IMAP for email.

"OK, #3 temporarily. I already have 3 passwords. Are they asking me to change them?"
No. I believe they're asking you to create some temporary app passwords that you use instead.



I was explaining several times that I hate webmail, so you're not helping with that. Multiple accounts are a PITA in webmail, and POP3 has more features. end of topic

I don't have multiple devices, no smartphone, and no sharing of accounts. They're all mine and 4 addresses are only for receiving mail, other 2 are for sending and receiving. Old-fashioned flip-phone, no tablets. Just 3 networked desktops, and I do email on only one. I work online. Once I leave the house, I don't want to be wired.

I'm not familiar with IMAP, but I'm sure it's more time-consuming than just setting up that one-time password.

Thanks for your time
2 Desktops--Win 7 Ult.SP1 x64/6GB RAM /Firefox 52.9ESR/Waterfox64 2020.9/Thunderbird 52.9ESR/Sticky Password/Verizon FIOS wired network

LoveMyFoxy

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Post Posted October 31st, 2020, 12:15 pm

WaltS48 wrote:I've had no problems using Verizon in any version of Thunderbird including 78.4.0.

The account was set up as POP3 because that is the only thing they offered and what the account wizard found in the ISPDB, no problem when they shut down their servers and moved to AOL servers.

Incoming server: pop.verizon.net
Port: 995
Connection security: SSL/TLS
Authentication method: Normal password

Outgoing Server: smtp.verizon.net
Port: 465
Username: username@verizon.net
Connection security: SSL/TLS
Authentication method: Normal password

I didn't have to change anything.

I did have to fix my AOL email account. That's the one with @aol.com or @aim.com as the provider.

HTH


I've been using TB for over 15 years, Netscape before that. I have all those settings, incl SSL/TLS and no trouble till yesterday. Verizon sent out a notice that they're upgrading security; it's not just for TB users, and I believe this is the problem they wrote about.

Your TB 78 might already have the extra security. Is there an updated list of which TB extensions have been converted to Webex?
2 Desktops--Win 7 Ult.SP1 x64/6GB RAM /Firefox 52.9ESR/Waterfox64 2020.9/Thunderbird 52.9ESR/Sticky Password/Verizon FIOS wired network

LoveMyFoxy

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Post Posted October 31st, 2020, 4:20 pm

Did nothing yet, but all my accounts started working again tonight.

I would like to update. Where is the list of extensions that have been converted to WebEx?
2 Desktops--Win 7 Ult.SP1 x64/6GB RAM /Firefox 52.9ESR/Waterfox64 2020.9/Thunderbird 52.9ESR/Sticky Password/Verizon FIOS wired network

tanstaafl
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Post Posted October 31st, 2020, 7:18 pm

LoveMyFoxy wrote:I was explaining several times that I hate webmail, so you're not helping with that. Multiple accounts are a PITA in webmail, and POP3 has more features. end of topic

Please re-read what I wrote. Nowhere did I recommend switching to webmail. Perhaps you're mis-interpreting my suggestion to configure webmail with a different email provider to periodically automatically fetch mail from another mailbox (Verizon) using POP and merge it into the inbox. You only need to log into webmail one-time to configure the automated fetching. Afterwards no need to ever use webmail again. Thunderbird doesn't care how the mail got into the inbox.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted October 31st, 2020, 7:20 pm

LoveMyFoxy wrote:Where is the list of extensions that have been converted to WebEx?

https://cleidigh.github.io/ThunderKdB/

WaltS48

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Post Posted November 1st, 2020, 8:04 am

LoveMyFoxy wrote:
WaltS48 wrote:I've had no problems using Verizon in any version of Thunderbird including 78.4.0.

The account was set up as POP3 because that is the only thing they offered and what the account wizard found in the ISPDB, no problem when they shut down their servers and moved to AOL servers.

Incoming server: pop.verizon.net
Port: 995
Connection security: SSL/TLS
Authentication method: Normal password

Outgoing Server: smtp.verizon.net
Port: 465
Username: username@verizon.net
Connection security: SSL/TLS
Authentication method: Normal password

I didn't have to change anything.

I did have to fix my AOL email account. That's the one with @aol.com or @aim.com as the provider.

HTH


I've been using TB for over 15 years, Netscape before that. I have all those settings, incl SSL/TLS and no trouble till yesterday. Verizon sent out a notice that they're upgrading security; it's not just for TB users, and I believe this is the problem they wrote about.

Your TB 78 might already have the extra security. Is there an updated list of which TB extensions have been converted to Webex?


Me too and with a Verizon account.

I've never received an email from Verizon that they were upgrading security.

Maybe you could share that with us?

Users of AOL and Yahoo accounts, myself included, did get emails about upgrading security.

If you look at my settings I am not using the OAuth2 Authentication method required by AOL for @aol.com or Yahoo for @yahoo.com email accounts. I am still using "Normal password" for my @verizon.net email account.
Linux Desktop - AMD Athlon(tm) II X3 455 3.3GHz | 8.0GB RAM | GeForce GT 630
Windows Notebook - AMD A8 7410 2.2GHz | 6.0GB RAM | AMD Radeon R5

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