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mail entries disapear

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jamo2
 
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Post Posted October 8th, 2017, 4:11 pm

Hi,

We have a very crazy problem with thunderbird since about 6 Months (since an TB update probably the update where you have introduced the possibility of mbox ... but we do not use mbox )

In some folders the mail list disappears on mouse over ... all becomes white only a point in each line remains. (like with an eraser in a picture editor).

Rebuild of the Index file does not have an effect. The file with the mails seems to be ok.

It is a bit crazy that there are a lot of cert_override.txt files in the main folder of the profile folder.

The problem do not happens in old TB Versions or SKY Monkey. We have tryed the last TB Version and also daily (=64 Version) the problem apears in new versions.

The Profile is on a NAS (ext4 File System) but the computer is a WINDOWS 10 Computer.

We find t any way to restore the Mails ... After a restart of TB the folder is empty and it is possible to download new mails ... they works fine for some time ... and then the problem remains...

The Problem concerns only POP Account folders ... the IMAP Folders wo normally.

DanRaisch
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Post Posted October 8th, 2017, 7:17 pm

since about 6 Months (since an TB update probably the update where you have introduced the possibility of mbox ... but we do not use mbox )

Mbox has been the default file format for Thunderbird message files for more than 12 years.

Is the disappearance happening in only the Inbox folder or in multiple folders?
How many messages are in the folders from which the messages are disappearing?
What version of Thunderbird are you now running?

Moving to Thunderbird Support as no bug has yet been identified here.

jamo2
 
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Post Posted October 9th, 2017, 5:33 pm

DanRaisch,

I know that Mbox is the default mail format of TB ... do to the fact that the Maildir Format is still not used often I have not seen when this format comes up. I see only that the problem comes not up if I use an older TB Version (=Sea Monkey ... I have not fund an old TB Version). Sea Monkey seems to be a very old TB version and does not destroy the entries ... but we want not use it for the fact that it is too old.

We have this problem since an TB update that we have made about 6 months in the past.

Do to the fact that the profile is on a NAS I have tried with 3 different Computers (all expect the same problem). One of the computers has a new Windows installation and a new TB on it. I have also tried to see if the problem comes still up when I use a cops of the profile in the standard folder of Windows ... also this is not a solution. I have also tried if the problem is solved if I use the safe mode.

I have tried all ordinary TB versions that I have fund ... but they are all newer as Sea-Monkey. Finally I have fund a 64 Bit version of TB who is extremely crazy: "Daily" .... Daily works fine (better then TB 32 versions !!!) but have the same problem.

In the profile are more then 30 accounts (POP and IMAP) the problem concerns only POP accounts (on the IMAP accounts all the Mail entries are normally displayed). The problem comes up in folders with 1 mail to xxxx mails ... I see not any system ... some time it works fine 5 days, some time we have the problem 2 times a day. The mail entries disapear in the middle window of TB where is a list of the mails (subject correspondents Date ...) it is like in a paint-programm when you use an eraser .... on mouse-over the entries disapears like this (before "xxxxxxxxzzzzzzzz" after mouse over "xx zzzzzz") If I mouve the mouse over the complete window all entries are erased there remains only one point/line on the white Window ... it is really like an picture wehre i erase a part of the picture. It is not line by line ... it is like this:

post approved- Re: Wind o Forums@mozillazine.org 10/9/2017
.<<<<approved- Re: Wind o Forums@mozillazine.org 10/9/2017
.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Wind o Forums@<<<<illazine.org 10/9/2017
post approved-<<<<<<<<<<<< orums<<<ozillazine.org 10/9/2017
post approved- Re: Wind<<<<<<<<<< mozillazine.org 10/9/2017

(the "<" signs in this example stays for "blanc"-erased )

When I "draw" a V with the mouse ... when I move the mouse over all the text the window will be empty (white .. one point on the beginning of each line).
If I move the mouse over the rest of the Window (only the window with the mails) I have at the end that:
.
.
.
.
.

If I restart TB all is still "white" if I download then new mails the mails will be normally displayed and for some time / days all is correct.

The two files seems to be still ok (I can read the content of the mails with a text editor) when I control the files after the shut down. The repear fonction do not have any result.

Not any folder is very big ...

This is a very big problem ... I am never sure that the mails will be displayed.

I need a solution ...

Thanks.
jamo2
Last edited by jamo2 on October 10th, 2017, 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted October 9th, 2017, 6:54 pm

Just to be clear, are you using mbox or maildir for the POP accounts?

Does the "Local Folders" special account have the same problem? Is it using mbox or maildir?

Does the problem still occur if you use safe mode (help -> restart with add-osn disabled)? The reason I ask is one of your add-ons might have started to have bad side effects due to a change in the Thunderbird API's it uses that it has not been updated to deal with.

jamo2
 
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Post Posted October 10th, 2017, 6:24 am

tanstaafl,

I use mbox ..I have never tried maildir (for the simple reason that it will be very complicated to transform mbox to maildir) I have the problem since an update of TB (before this update we had not this problem). Due to the fact that the problem does not happens when I use the profile with Sea-Monkey (who seems to be an old TB version without the possibility of Maildir) I think that the problem comes from a bug who concerns only TB versions with the maildir feature.

The problem occurs also when I use the safe mode. We use not a lot of Add-ons ... only remove duplicate messages alternate And I have tried on a new computer with a standard TB installation (and the same profile on the NAS). I have also tried if the name of the folder of the profile is the reason for the problems ... but it changes nothing if I change the directory name.

Since some time he creates "cert_override.txt" Files ... in the root of the profile .. I do not find out what this will do. But I think not that this is related to the erased entries problem.

The problem occurs in all folders of POP accounts and the local folder ... IMAP accounts works normally

Do to the fact that Windows TB profiles do not run with LINUX TB I have not tried if this will better work under LINUX.

I do also not think that the fact that the profile is on a NAS (EXT4 File-System emulated by Windows) is not the background of the problems. The profile folder size is about 1,7 Gb

The TB installation is "Standard" ... but has about 50 mail accounts (both ... POP and IMAP, each have a folder, the local folders are only used for archives)

thanks
Jamo2

tanstaafl
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Post Posted October 10th, 2017, 6:50 am

"Do to the fact that Windows TB profiles do not run with LINUX TB I have not tried if this will better work under LINUX. "
You frequently can use a TB profile created under Windows "as is" under Linux due to almost all of the settings about location also having a "relative" version that omits the driver letter. See http://kb.mozillazine.org/Sharing_a_pro ... _and_Linux . The main issue is that the Lightning add-on has separate downloads for Windows and Linux.

"It is a bit crazy that there are a lot of cert_override.txt files in the main folder of the profile folder."
AFAIK there should be only one cert_override.txt file in a profile. See https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/doc ... erride.txt . However, that sounds like a unrelated problem.

"We have this problem since an TB update that we have made about 6 months in the past."
See http://kb.mozillazine.org/Go_back_to_an ... hunderbird if you'd like to try an older version of Thunderbird using your existing profile. I suggest you install it in a different directory so that you can switch between the two versions as desired.

"If I restart TB all is still "white" if I download then new mails the mails will be normally displayed and for some time / days all is correct. "
One possibility is that the inbox folder is corrupt. However, I wouldn't expect every inbox folder to get corrupt. Pick an account and as an experiment move all of the messages from its inbox to other folders, empty the trash and compact the folder. See if that folder no longer has the problem over the next few days as you get new mail.

jamo2
 
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Post Posted October 11th, 2017, 10:40 am

Trastaafl,

I have verified all the files ... I have not fund any corrupt file. And please take note ... I have about 30 Mail account Folders ... and the problem comes not up il all the folders ... only about in one (by two or three days) ... and there is not any systematic ... some displays was never corrupt ... other are corrupt one time in 2 weeks or more ...

I have also rebuild a profile ... the problem is a problem in Thunderbird not in the files...

I think that TB destruct some things in the 2 Data files ...

This is a problem what only a developper who can analyze the content of the data files can find and it is important that the bug is fund and resolved bevore a lot of other users will have the same problem.

thanks,
Jamo2

tanstaafl
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Post Posted October 11th, 2017, 11:07 am

How did you determine that you had no corrupt files?

jamo2
 
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Post Posted October 12th, 2017, 4:36 pm

transtaafl,

I have copied the whole profile folder to an other drive ... I have tested the files with the repair fonction of TB ... I have tried with new mail accounts ... I have also tested the profile with several older TB versions .. and with Sea Monkey (who is an old TB ... and works without this bug) and now I have the first time the issue on an IMAP mail folder (The files are on a server ... this will mean on a complete other system).

Please take note that the problem occurs since an update of TB (32-Bit) about 6 Months ago ... before this issue was not a problem (and the issue is also not a problem with the old TB version ... Sea Monkey)

The only thing that I was not be able was to try the updates of Daily ...

Daily is also a problem for TB ... and Mozilla must handle this problem. FIRST: Daily comes as "Thunderbird" thunderbird-56.0a1.en-US.win64 installer.exe when you install this ... no warnings ... but the install program installs "Daily" .... Second: Daily is configured to seek automatically updates ... and probably these updates are 32 bit versions ... to made running Daily I must (very fast) disable the stupid automatic update fonction .. more stupide ... on the download-page of Daily (https://www.m64.info/index.php/thunderb ... t-download) are a lot of updated versions but not one of these versions will work only the oldest versions are usable.

There is also no response from the "support" of Daily.

It seems that Daily is an in official test version

With the 32 Bit Version of TB (the older versions) we had a lot of very stupid problems ... but not the problem with the "erased entries". In Daily some of the other problems of the old TB Version seems to be reduced ... I do not know if these very stupid bugs of the old TB versions was also solved in the newer 32 Bit TB Versions.

I am very disappointed that the Mozilla developers are not ready to take note of the bugs that I have fund and that they will not use the fact that I have a "high End - User Installation" of TB. It is clear that we have more problems with TB as an simple user. To enhance the stability of a program like TB it is needed to solve also bugs who are only on "high end Installations" ... the developers must not only solve simple bugs who concerns hobby users but also issues who does not concerns simple users in the first time.

It is also important that Mozilla do not create very crazy situations like the situation with daily ... in a first time we have expect that Daily is perhaps a Trojan ... it is very stupid to produce a program who change without any notice the name of the program.

Thanks
Jamo2

tanstaafl
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Post Posted October 12th, 2017, 5:08 pm

"I have tested the files with the repair fonction of TB "

All that does is rebuild the *.msf file - basically a cache of the folder listing. It frequently will recreate the same folder listing even for a corrupted folder. It does not try to test anything. Not does it repair the mbox file that stores the messages.

"that they will not use the fact that I have a "high End - User Installation" of TB. "
Huh? What do you mean by that, and why do you believe you have one? You have 30 accounts and store a profile on a file share. That is no big deal and doesn't appear related to your problems.

You haven't posted a link to a related bug report so I do not understand why you expect Mozilla to get involved.

This forum is not run by or formally associated with Mozilla despite the similarity in names. Developers don't normally read these forums. They rely upon communities such as ours and the official one at https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/thunderbird to provide support to users. Developers typically only want to pay attention to confirmed bug reports at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ . Bug reports are not meant as a way for a user to get support.

"in a first time we have expect that Daily is perhaps a Trojan ... it is very stupid to produce a program who change without any notice the name of the program."

http://www.m64.info is not affiliated with Mozilla and doesn't have a good reputation. This forum is meant for problems with released builds. If you think there is a problem with a real daily build ( which you can get from http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/ ... m-central/ ), please post about it in the Thunderbird Builds forum. However, I suggest you stick with a production 32 bit build. The supposed performance benefits of a 64 bit build are marginal, and not worth the risk if you are using Windows, at this time. Daily builds are untested, experimental builds. They are not intended for normal use by users.

http://kb.mozillazine.org/64_bit_builds

jamo2
 
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Post Posted October 13th, 2017, 5:49 pm

tanstaafl,

I have perhaps fund an idea where the problem is located:

The "erase entries-problem" comes up when I have opened an folder (the mails are shown in the window) .. the I click on an other mail folder (the mails of the old folder are still displayed), then the load-wait sign comes up and turns ... (TB will load the new selected folder) and if I touch then the window with the mail entries of the previous selected folder, THESE entries disappear (not the entries of the new selected folder).

I have the feeling that TB have a problem if there are a lot of folders in a Profile ... perhaps a RAM manage problem. Probably I have more folders as an simple user.

Again: this is a problem who must be handled by the developers ...

thanks,
Jamo2

wsmwk
 
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Post Posted October 13th, 2017, 9:34 pm

Because your problem is easily reproduced and you indicate it worked in a prior version it should be possible to identify on which day in the development period the bug begins. The skills you have demonstrated in documenting your problem that you have the abilty to run http://mozilla.github.io/mozregression/ which automates the process to some degree.

If the problem does not occur in version 45.8.0 but does occur with version 52.0, then use a start date of 2015-12-15 (for the earliest of version 46.0a1) [1] and 2016-11-20. If the problem does not occur with [2] then you patch causing the problem happened after that date.

[1] https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunder ... m-central/
[2] https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunder ... m-central/

jamo2
 
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Post Posted October 14th, 2017, 7:44 pm

transtaafl,

I can now reproduce the problem:

1 I am on a inbox or other folder (all mails are displayed normally)
2 I click on an other folder in an other account
3 The old selected folder remains displayed while TB seeks to load the new selected folder
4 the "load sign" turns while the old selected folder contents stays on the screen.
5 if I move in this moment the mouse over the mail names in the mail list (still the mails of the older folder) the mouse works like a "eraser" in a picture editor ... if I move the mouse over the complete contents of the window ... all becomes blanc, there is only one point at the beginning of each line.

This is clearly a bug in TB. TB can not load the new selected folder. While TB try to load the folder it is possible to "erase" the content of the window ...

I think that the data files are not concerned. (I verify that in the next days)

I think that TB has since the maildir/mbox possibility a problem whit profiles with a big number of folders.

Thanks,
Jamo2

tanstaafl
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Post Posted October 15th, 2017, 12:11 am

Does this problem only occur when you switch POP accounts or can it occur when you switch folders in the same POP account?

How much free memory does your system typically have when this problem occurs (according to task manager's performance tab)?
How much memory does Thunderbird typically consume when this problem occurs (according to task manager)?
For example, I'm using 4.0GB out of 15.9GB, and TB peaks at 226MB.

Did you run the regression program that wsmwk suggested? Being able to narrow it down to a change in a specific version helps the developers take a bug report more seriously.

jamo2
 
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Post Posted October 23rd, 2017, 9:57 am

@wsmwk
@tanstaafl

The memory usage (when the probleme comes up is about 7,5% (of 4 Gb) Total memory usage is about 84%

Again this is a big bug in TB ... and it is needed that a developper analyze the problem.

You find on the two following links a screenshot of the memory usage (Task manager) and a screen shot of my thunderbird display after I have opened TB this day (you see in the uper left corner the wheel (it stays since 20 minutes in this state) and the destroyed folder display ..

http://mail2vip.com/vtb/tb_distroyed_folder.jpg (this is the distroyed display)

http://mail2vip.com/vtb/tb_folder_content.jpg (this is the directory ... you see that the inbox file is from this day)

(The related data file seems to be ok .. I can read mails in the data file.)

http://mail2vip.com/vtb/tb_memory-usage.jpg (this is the memory usage Daily = Thunderbird 64bits ...)

I have also fund an other bug in the program ... thunderbird does create stupid mail folder names ... also this is a problem for the developpers ...

http://mail2vip.com/vtb/tb_stupid%20folder%20names.jpg (the folder names in the green marked zone are ok ... the folder names in the red marked zone are very stupid! this are not the mail account names but the names of the server ... there is not any clean reason to give these stupid names to the folders)

Please ask a developer to get in contact to me ... he can then analyze the whole profile .. this is the only way to find out where is teh bug.

thanks
Jamo2

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