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The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

Discussion of general topics about Seamonkey
d4rkn1ght

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Post Posted May 14th, 2017, 9:00 am

It won't let me make a credit card donation from the USA. :( It only shows the UK area, plus I don't use Paypal.

Just curious, do you guys support Bitcoin?

mitrichr

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Post Posted May 14th, 2017, 11:45 am

I have always found Paypal to be totally useful. Does anyone know anything wrong with it?

tonymec

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Post Posted May 14th, 2017, 1:39 pm

mitrichr wrote:I have always found Paypal to be totally useful. Does anyone know anything wrong with it?

AFAIK, you can't get money into PayPal without a credit card unless some other PayPal user pays it to you. I have a debit card but no credit card; I am also not subscribed to a home banking system. If I wanted (and could afford) to sponsor SeaMonkey financially, I would go to an ATM in an agency of my bank, and fill in an international giro order to the account defined by the IBAN code DE57 4526 1547 0210 2852 00. No sweat. The ATM would even check the check digits against the rest of the IBAN for consistency, and give an error for any mistyping (except if the mistyping happened to be neutral modulo 97, which is bloody unlikely).
Best regards,
Tony

mitrichr

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Post Posted May 14th, 2017, 2:20 pm

tonymec wrote:
mitrichr wrote:I have always found Paypal to be totally useful. Does anyone know anything wrong with it?

AFAIK, you can't get money into PayPal without a credit card unless some other PayPal user pays it to you. I have a debit card but no credit card; I am also not subscribed to a home banking system. If I wanted (and could afford) to sponsor SeaMonkey financially, I would go to an ATM in an agency of my bank, and fill in an international giro order to the account defined by the IBAN code DE57 4526 1547 0210 2852 00. No sweat. The ATM would even check the check digits against the rest of the IBAN for consistency, and give an error for any mistyping (except if the mistyping happened to be neutral modulo 97, which is bloody unlikely).


Thanks, I have no such problems, I use a very low limit credit card in case they are hacked, which has not happened. So, I just give up some air miles by not using my main credit card. I will not shop on line with anyone who does not take PayPal.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted May 14th, 2017, 2:47 pm

tonymec wrote:AFAIK, you can't get money into PayPal without a credit card unless some other PayPal user pays it to you.

Nope, I never use credit cards and only have debit cards. I can send and receive money with PayPal with no problem at all.
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

tonymec

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Post Posted May 15th, 2017, 2:02 am

Frank Lion wrote:
tonymec wrote:AFAIK, you can't get money into PayPal without a credit card unless some other PayPal user pays it to you.

Nope, I never use credit cards and only have debit cards. I can send and receive money with PayPal with no problem at all.

I stand corrected.
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Post Posted May 15th, 2017, 3:20 am

If you live in a country where you can do SEPA credit transfers in Euro use this one. No PayPal fees for SeaMonkey e.V. in this case. The IBAN is on the donation page too.

FRG

tonymec

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Post Posted May 15th, 2017, 6:36 am

frg wrote:If you live in a country where you can do SEPA credit transfers in Euro use this one. No PayPal fees for SeaMonkey e.V. in this case. The IBAN is on the donation page too.

FRG

I'm in Belgium, and yes, that's a SEPA country so the IBAN is what's what I'll use anyway. Minimum banking overhead, no PayPal costs, and I already know how to use it. I've only used it yet for domestic (Belgian) payments, but the principle is the same, the form is the same, there are only a few (6) more digits in German accounts but they are still shown in groups of 4 for "human friendliness" though the machine prefers them all concatenated as a single string of digits and letters, and Belgian "Cash-in / Cash-out / Non-cash" ATMs know how to validate the check digits for any IBAN. :-)
Best regards,
Tony

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Post Posted May 15th, 2017, 8:29 am

Arch5 wrote:you dont have to use PayPal if you dont want to. just go to Payment type an select Card, an then write the Card Numbers in

I already got burned by Paypal once so registering another account is a no go for me.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted May 16th, 2017, 9:35 am

Moving on from the fascinating subject of PayPal and turning back to other matters -

LewS wrote:In my earlier post jumping at Frank Lion's suggestion to
"freeze" SeaMonkey, I did not intend to imply that it would
be untouched but rather an extended esr. Just how much
security patches from Fx 57+ could be adapted to 2.49esr
based on Fx 52esr is the key question.


Frank's explanation of what he meant is pretty much the
way I understood it, and what I think would be most useful.


It's possible that the key question there might not prove to be the huge hurdle it appears to be -

viewtopic.php?p=14746985#p14746985
viewtopic.php?p=14746981#p14746981

We already knew the SM short term path was the patched ESR that would run until May next year. Now, I reckon when you get this stuff - 'Thunderbird will remain a Gecko-based application at least in the midterm....' that you also know what SM can do midterm as well. Of course, whether a frozen ESR is the right course to take would need discussion, but at least this latest news makes that a viable option.

However, if SM was to take a 'time-out' then that is not going to do much good unless they do some pretty basic re-assessment in that time of where this stuff is going, otherwise it'll be right back in the same uncertain position again once T/Bird does drop Gecko.

***

As for this thread, apart from this latest PayPal stuff, then you might have noticed that this thread has now totally dried up? Well, it would do, wouldn't it?

When the poor slob who spent ages writing the OP wrote -

It's all about choice.

We would like to continue supporting the power users like ourselves and those who are looking for something different and flexible without reinventing the wheel with every release. We try to listen to you, our user base, for advice/orders/demands/suggestions.


- then I reckon they were hoping for help, suggestions and advice from SM users here? Well, they will...but not if the main SM dev bug fixer immediately comes along and rubbishes suggestions that are made or, in the case my earlier post, doesn't even understand what is being offered or suggested, but still chooses to cheapshot everything there anyway. Do that and the suggestions and offers of help will very quickly dry up, as has happened here. It's how the world works, users assume devs know what they're talking about, even when I know damn well they don't.

Seriously, how hard is it to get simple stuff like that right? Over the years, I've had hundreds of suggestions/ideas given to me by users, both publicly and privately, and without exception I thanked them for their ideas and I leave it at that, even though I know that I'll only rarely use one of those suggestions. Why do I thank them? Well, obviously, because it is the polite thing to do, but also because however crazy their ideas are (and you do get some really crazy ones) that they would have spent time and effort on coming up with their suggestions. Plus, in the case of the public suggestions, I know that if I was to sneer at their ideas then no other people would come forward with their suggestions, which could have been useful ones.

Sure, just this post will seem to revive this thread, just because people like something to react to. But that's a false dawn and not the 'help, suggestions and advice' that I reckon the OP would have liked to have seen here instead.

Think, before you act. ;)
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

Mo_D

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Post Posted May 16th, 2017, 1:11 pm

I’ve never had a strong incentive to try SeaMonkey, but that might change for me in November. It might change for a lot of people. That’s what you should prepare for - a large influx of people trying out SeaMonkey in November. Don’t worry too much right now about the future of SM beyond November, because a lot of factors that influence that future might change. SM might gain a lot of support very quickly.

A discussion of options of how to support (paypal, etc.) is not totally wasted. When people are ready to give, you need to have clear instructions and every conceivable option readily available. They should not have to ask.

What’s been demonstrated in this thread is not very attractive to a new user. Good points have been made by many, but arguing in a less than civil manner, and a lack of focus on what this discussion is even about, appear a bit like chaos to an outsider. I would suggest the personal disputes be taken to personal messages for the sake of the project. People that strongly disagree are usually the ones that care the most. It’s a real shame when they can’t get along.

Is the OP looking for anything out of this thread beyond what was listed in the opening post? Maybe a separate thread is needed for suggestions?

mitrichr

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Post Posted May 16th, 2017, 1:28 pm

SM is the best browser for my blog work. I could get away with FF, but it would not be as easy. I have used Opera, FF, even once for a month Safari for Windows when it was available, which I think is over. I think SM is the superior one of them all.

frg
 
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Post Posted May 17th, 2017, 10:05 am

>> That’s what you should prepare for - a large influx of people trying out SeaMonkey in November.

Mo_D. I think it is more likely that people will migrate to Fx ESR 52 by then or just leave the Mozilla train. In the end I would say they will loose another 25+ % market share but that is just a hunch.

>> What’s been demonstrated in this thread is not very attractive to a new user. Good points have been made by many, but arguing in a less than civil manner,

I think the views are clear now. I do not want to start a personal vendetta. The important point for me is that SeaMonkey is a community project. If the community does not support it with either manpower or money it will go away.

My personal view: For months the council was criticized for not speaking out. Now it did and I think that is and was important. I don't have any clues where this will end but it will not end now :) While no 10 devs popped up out of the blue ( I personally didn't expect this anyway) the message still sparked some interest and donations are up for which I really are thankful.

FRG

mitrichr

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Post Posted May 17th, 2017, 1:26 pm

Nothing but love for SM.

malliz
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Post Posted May 17th, 2017, 3:03 pm

frg wrote:>> That’s what you should prepare for - a large influx of people trying out SeaMonkey in November.

Mo_D. I think it is more likely that people will migrate to Fx ESR 52 by then or just leave the Mozilla train. In the end I would say they will loose another 25+ % market share but that is just a hunch.

>> What’s been demonstrated in this thread is not very attractive to a new user. Good points have been made by many, but arguing in a less than civil manner,

I think the views are clear now. I do not want to start a personal vendetta. The important point for me is that SeaMonkey is a community project. If the community does not support it with either manpower or money it will go away.

My personal view: For months the council was criticized for not speaking out. Now it did and I think that is and was important. I don't have any clues where this will end but it will not end now :) While no 10 devs popped up out of the blue ( I personally didn't expect this anyway) the message still sparked some interest and donations are up for which I really are thankful.

FRG


Not a great attitude if you have any aim of taking Seamonkey into the future. My advice would normally be to get some motivated people with new ideas and take a step back but it looks like you would rather shoot any new ideas down. Nothing has changed since the suite was circling the drain
What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.
"Terry Pratchett"

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