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Gecko 57 to kill "traditional" extensions?

Discussion of general topics about Seamonkey
barbaz
 
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Post Posted November 26th, 2016, 10:09 pm

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Add-ons/2017
How will this affect extensions in SeaMonkey?
*Always* check the changelogs BEFORE updating that important software!

frg
 
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Post Posted November 27th, 2016, 3:25 am

Webextensions are currently not working in SeaMonkey. This might also need E10s support to work properly. Last I looked there were at least around 5MB sourcecode in FF needed for this to work and also many changes in the browser itself.

While I think that Firefox will likely be dead soon afterwards if this and Theme removal goes thru as planned it won't help SeaMonkey. If no more devs show up willing to contribute it might mean the end of SeaMonkey after a possible 2.50 ESR. So to all enjoy it while it lasts or try to help out.

FRG

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Post Posted November 27th, 2016, 2:29 pm

There is no ESR for SeaMonkey. Why remove themes? They improve the appearance of the application so much.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted November 27th, 2016, 2:32 pm

frg wrote:... if this and Theme removal goes thru as planned it won't help SeaMonkey.

It is the 'this' that is the big problem.

The Theme side is a non-problem, Firefox...and thus SM, could drop Complete Themes tomorrow and Pat and I could have our SM themes back up as .xpis within 90 minutes. Even other existing themes would only take a few days or maybe a week to recode to do that.

The demise of XUL and extensions though, would present a far greater problem, probably terminal.
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

frg
 
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Post Posted November 27th, 2016, 2:45 pm

>> There is no ESR for SeaMonkey.

It is being considered just to keep XP and Vista support for a while longer. And our good friends at Mozilla breaking the source tree almost daily now and not all changes are what I would call logical...

>> Why remove themes?

They are bad for your health :)

>> They improve the appearance of the application so much.

Chrome doesn't have them so why should Firefox. They distract from the beautiful rounded tabs and flat buttons.

FRG

JodyThornton

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Post Posted November 28th, 2016, 7:24 am

Maybe SeaMonkey devs will just implement Gecko 57 and that will become SeaMonkey 3? Perhaps.
:(
Cheers,
Jody Thornton
(Richmond Hill, Ontario)

barbaz
 
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Post Posted November 28th, 2016, 8:59 am

JodyThornton wrote:Maybe SeaMonkey devs will just implement Gecko 57 and that will become SeaMonkey 3? Perhaps.
:(

Yeah, but they're basically already on track for that. Unfortunately it's not that simple.

Gecko is not Firefox. Gecko is only the backend code. Firefox and SeaMonkey are two different "front-end" code bases for it. So SeaMonkey already implements Gecko.

But some of WebExtensions is currently specific to Firefox.

This means, SeaMonkey will have to port that code over. But as said, there are many other, prerequisite changes that SeaMonkey would need to make first - viewtopic.php?p=14722291#p14722291

That is why this is a concern and why people are using phrases like 'might mean the end' and 'big problem'.
*Always* check the changelogs BEFORE updating that important software!

JodyThornton

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Post Posted November 28th, 2016, 9:18 am

Oh hey I hear ya! I thought SeaMonkey was doomed awhile ago (sadly too because I think it's a great browser suite). But even looking at how long it's taking to get an updated finished new version out gives a bad sign. So WebExtensions is just like bad dried out icing on top of stale cake :(
Cheers,
Jody Thornton
(Richmond Hill, Ontario)

Frank Lion

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Post Posted November 28th, 2016, 9:32 am

JodyThornton wrote:But even looking at how long it's taking to get an updated finished new version out gives a bad sign.

Not really. That had nothing to do with development - viewtopic.php?p=14718031#p14718031

SM will be fine, it's just that people from outside just aren't used to seeing stuff written honestly as here, but always with the best spin put on everything. I find the SM dev approach to things very refreshing and don't give a damn what bad signs or otherwise it gives out.


barbaz wrote:...But some of WebExtensions is currently specific to Firefox.

This means, SeaMonkey will have to port that code over

...or not port the code over. Those WebExtensions will not be adding anything of value to SM and can be safely ignored, I reckon.
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

barbaz
 
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Post Posted November 28th, 2016, 9:53 am

Frank Lion wrote:
barbaz wrote:...But some of WebExtensions is currently specific to Firefox.

This means, SeaMonkey will have to port that code over

...or not port the code over

... and thus lose all extensions support?

Frank Lion wrote:Those WebExtensions [...] can be safely ignored, I reckon.

Compared to "traditional" extensions, yes.

Compared to no extensions at all, which appears to be the alternative here, ignoring this doesn't sound so safe, does it? :( :?
*Always* check the changelogs BEFORE updating that important software!

Frank Lion

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Post Posted November 28th, 2016, 10:11 am

barbaz wrote:
Frank Lion wrote:
barbaz wrote:...But some of WebExtensions is currently specific to Firefox.

This means, SeaMonkey will have to port that code over

...or not port the code over

... and thus lose all extensions support?

...which is why SM continuing with XUL would be a 'good thing'.

If SM's sole ambition in the future is only to be a bit less worthless than Firefox, then it's going to end in tears.
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

MdniteEagl
 
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Post Posted November 28th, 2016, 10:48 am

No extensions = first release of Microsoft Edge... no thanks.
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit - Intel Xeon E5-1630 v3 quad-core - 32GB (4x8GB) 2400MHz DDR4 - Fx 50.0/TB 45.4.0

DJGM

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Post Posted November 28th, 2016, 4:44 pm

If Mozilla is ultimately planning to kill off Gecko/XUL, couldn't The SeaMonkey Council do what the Pale Moon
developers did ... fork it, and continue regardless of whatever Chrome-clone direction Firefox goes for?

It's open-source, so surely anyone who knows how to, can fork it any go their own way with it!

(It's a shame Pale Moon forked from what is now a very outdated version of Gecko.)

libertyernie
 
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Post Posted November 29th, 2016, 7:16 am

The current version of Pale Moon updated its core to a fork of Gecko 38, for what that's worth. And I've been able to compile a frankenstein-ish SeaMonkey 2.35 using Pale Moon's source as the mozilla/ folder.
I'll keep using regular SeaMonkey for as long as it keeps compiling, but it's nice to have a hypothetical backup option, I suppose.

barbaz
 
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Post Posted November 29th, 2016, 8:04 am

DJGM wrote:If Mozilla is ultimately planning to kill off Gecko/XUL, couldn't The SeaMonkey Council do what the Pale Moon
developers did ... fork it, and continue regardless of whatever Chrome-clone direction Firefox goes for?

That has been discussed before - viewtopic.php?p=14435693#p14435693
*Always* check the changelogs BEFORE updating that important software!

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