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SeaMonkey + Quantum?

Discussion of general topics about Seamonkey
JohnB_XP

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Post Posted November 20th, 2017, 4:15 pm

Will SeaMonkey be getting the new Quantum improvements from Firefox, or stay with older style extensions, UI, and old pre-Quantum speeds?
SeaMonkey 2.49.1 Stable, Windows 10 x64 and XP Pro SP3

therube

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Post Posted November 20th, 2017, 9:34 pm

For now, certainly old.
What the future holds, is anyone's guess.

As it is, you've got to ask, does "speed" (if there is actually speed, other then hype), override: stability, extensibility <sp?>, including actually useful extensions, & that grand 'ol XP look ;-).

You might be glad for your pre-Quantum.


(Actually, on my first look at 57, I was pleasantly surprised [that it actually fully opened my [[SeaMonkey]] Profile - without crashing, & it actually did work very well. I was even going to jump into #seamonkey & say, "hey, they've got a pretty good back end over there [57]". Well... after that, lets just say that whatever initial enthusiasm there was has been, tempered. Subsequent looks were not as good, not sure why? And now realizing just how pitiful "webextensions" are, & the lack of even relatively simple customization. UI is ugly as dirt. UX is often horrid. By the way, how are your css skills? And that said, the back-end may not be too bad, actually.)
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.19) Gecko/20110420 SeaMonkey/2.0.14 Pinball CopyURL+ FetchTextURL FlashGot NoScript

frg
 
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Post Posted November 21st, 2017, 8:32 am

Well this is what I wrote when the same question came up in mozilla.support.seamonkey:

+++

There is some misunderstanding here what Mozilla did with Fx 57.

It is basically a cleanup with some new parts. No big rewrite of anything. Extensions usually do no longer work not because of new code but because of code removed and some tightened security. Minor code changes caused a big impact for extension compatibility.
Not said that they didn't do a good job speeding up Gecko but I already saw this in 2.53 / 56.

And if you take enough code out and switching the user interface to mostly vector based black and white images with dull gray background and empty boxes e.g. the add-on manager you get a shiny new fast release.

The next planned release after the last in the ESR 2.49.x branch is 2.56 ESR. If it comes to this it will allow classic extensions to install. But because of code removals most of them will just no longer work and would need to be updated.

When running 2.55a1 and a page throws extensive javascript on it it slows down as it did before. I expect the same with Fx 57. Probably not so noticeable because of e10s in Fx but for everyday usage I fail to see the speed improvements. Startup times may be improved if you use a lot of tabs because Fx delays loading them better but if you actually try to use them ram will go up fast. And if you think every tab is isolated and runs in its own content process now think again. There are only a few content processes and some tabs will be use the same. A 2.49.2 x64 on Windows is pretty darn fast enough for me.

As usual my findings may not be accurate and YMMV

+++

I am running 2.53 for tests in a vm and I like it a lot. Feels faster. 2.54 (Fx 57) and up suffer from the code removals. Almost all add-ons broken and need to be updated.

Overall I am underwhelmed by the new Fx versions. Looking at the new No Script and Adblock Plus versions I think that Web Extensions do not cut it. Feel like kiddie toys compared to the old versions to me. UI is a matter of taste but I vastly prefer Chromium over Fx. Fx is a gray looking mess imho.

Gecko seems to get better with every release and the frontend and configurablity degrade more with every release.

I stick with SeaMonkey as long as possible to have a nice (for me) ui and functionality. If no longer possible Chromium is it probable.

FRG
Last edited by frg on November 21st, 2017, 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted November 21st, 2017, 8:54 am

JohnB_XP wrote:Will SeaMonkey be getting the new Quantum improvements from Firefox, or stay with older style extensions, UI, and old pre-Quantum speeds?

I think the first step should be for Firefox itself to get the new Quantum improvements, because I'm not seeing it in Firefox 57 or 58 - viewtopic.php?p=14770324#p14770324

As for SeaMonkey, I don't think it has the resources, talent or vision to eventually do much else other than to eventually follow Firefox down the same path. It's not got Blake Ross coding this SM stuff, you know.
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frg
 
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Post Posted November 21st, 2017, 11:21 am

> As for SeaMonkey, I don't think it has the resources, talent or vision

I think it is mostly resources. More resources more Talent comes in. As for vision. If you just struggle to stay "alive" you vision becomes very very narrow. And then there is also a user base which, for the most part, is happy with the status quo. Just try to change an icon... :)

FRG

WaltS48

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Post Posted November 21st, 2017, 12:31 pm

frg wrote:Well this is what I wrote when the same question came up in mozilla.support.seamonkey:

+++

There is some misunderstanding here what Mozilla did with Fx 57.

It is basically a cleanup with some new parts. No big rewrite of anything.
FRG


How many lines of code were touched?

75,342 files changed
4,888,199 lines were added
6,886,199 lines were changed


That's a big cleanup!

REF: https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/the-ne ... e-numbers/
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therube

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Post Posted November 21st, 2017, 1:27 pm

Startup times may be improved if you use a lot of tabs

Startup, yes. And shutdown is night & day.
(That is the case with FF 56 too.)

Memory usage, management seems to be better to - but I've really got to play more.
Making things more difficult (for me) to compare, rationalize, is that NoScript is basically a no-go (for me) in 57 (much less any other extensions that I would normally use [except for uBlock Origin, which does work]).
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.19) Gecko/20110420 SeaMonkey/2.0.14 Pinball CopyURL+ FetchTextURL FlashGot NoScript

frg
 
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Post Posted November 21st, 2017, 2:19 pm

> That's a big cleanup!

Unfortunately meaningless. I see thousands of files updated every week. A minor removal might touch 100 or so. And servo was checked in also recently and is not used in regular builds.

I don't want to knock the effort down but most improvements are imho already in 56. Spidermonkey and memory management get better all the time.

FRG

LuvKomputrs

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Post Posted November 23rd, 2017, 11:27 am

JohnB_XP wrote:Will SeaMonkey be getting the new Quantum improvements from Firefox, or stay with older style extensions, UI, and old pre-Quantum speeds?

Good questions. Have often wondered myself about that. :-k
I do see a bright future for SeaMonkey. :)
I have da faith! :wink:

Frank Lion wrote: As for SeaMonkey, I don't think it has the resources, talent or vision...

Respectfully disagree with you on that. IMHO they do have the talent and vision.
As for the resources I do hope they get more. I'd be willing to contribute some $ for SeaMonkey if the need arises.
They've kept my favourite browser going and I'm hoping to see it continuing on.

Perhaps SeaMonkey might be able to use the Quantum engine at some point in time. Who knows for sure what will happen? :?

Whatever the SeaMonkey council does decide to do in the future releases of SeaMonkey I wish them the best of luck. :)
They've done a GREAT JOB. =D>

Frank Lion

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Post Posted November 23rd, 2017, 12:33 pm

LuvKomputrs wrote:
Frank Lion wrote: As for SeaMonkey, I don't think it has the resources, talent or vision...

Respectfully disagree with you on that. IMHO they do have the talent and vision.

Fine, you obviously have something in mind and seem to have spotted something that I, and indeed frg, seem to have missed.

So, could you give us, say, 10 examples of where and how this talent and vision has manifested itself in the SM project over the last 5 years or so?
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LuvKomputrs

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Post Posted November 23rd, 2017, 1:18 pm

Frank Lion wrote:Fine, you obviously have something in mind and seem to have spotted something that I, and indeed frg, seem to have missed.

So, could you give us, say, 10 examples of where and how this talent and vision has manifested itself in the SM project over the last 5 years or so?

For clarification what I was trying to say is that I'm pleased that SeaMonkey is still growing strong.
Not that I spotted something and someone else didn't. Not my intention at all.
I don't want the browser to go and IMHO many of us SeaMonkey users want that too.
Your contribution Frank and frg's are also valuable to the threads here about the SeaMonkey browser and I value that too. :)
Ten examples? Not sure if I can come up with that many! I'll try! :-k
You can still add some Firefox extensions, themes, themes(Personas), other add-ons, etc. that still work with the current version of SeaMonkey.
And the SeaFox and CTB add-ons still work very well with my current version of SeaMonkey as I'm posting here.
The UI isn't ugly and as a female computer geek I do like that. I like that a lot.
Also the SeaMonkey council cares and works hard to have the browser going.
IMHO they've got passion and dedication too about SeaMonkey.
And Frank you've also created some wonderful themes for us SeaMonkey users to use. :)
And your contribution is valuable too for the SeaMonkey browser. :)
Hope I came up with enough examples! :wink:
I do hope that SeaMonkey will continue on and I think that you do too. :wink:
Last edited by LuvKomputrs on November 27th, 2017, 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Frank Lion

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Post Posted November 23rd, 2017, 2:06 pm

LuvKomputrs wrote:For clarification what I was trying to say is that I'm pleased that SeaMonkey is still growing strong.

I'm just pleased it's still existing.

BS has been the ruin of many 3rd Party Builds - viewtopic.php?p=14764984#p14764984 and all it does is to, accidentally or deliberately, raise false expectations.

At least with SeaMonkey people should/do know the score and that score is that it is just existing, not planning to take over the world. Understandable as many on these lists haven't been part of the project for years now - https://www.seamonkey-project.org/about https://www.seamonkey-project.org/dev/project-areas

Valuable as extension devs and theme authors may be, that is not the same as having a strong team of core devs working on the platform and it is the latter that is slightly lean atm and has been for a while.
Metal Lion latest SeaMonkey & Thunderbird Themes - Sea Monkey and Silver Sea Monkey
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)

LuvKomputrs

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Post Posted November 23rd, 2017, 2:41 pm

Frank Lion wrote:I'm just pleased it's still existing.

BS has been the ruin of many 3rd Party Builds - viewtopic.php?p=14764984#p14764984 and all it does is to, accidentally or deliberately, raise false expectations.

At least with SeaMonkey people should/do know the score and that score is that it is just existing, not planning to take over the world. Understandable as many on these lists haven't been part of the project for years now - https://www.seamonkey-project.org/about https://www.seamonkey-project.org/dev/project-areas

Valuable as extension devs and theme authors may be, that is not the same as having a strong team of core devs working on the platform and it is the latter that is slightly lean atm and has been for a while.

Very good points and very well said too.
Don't like the BS either that have been the ruin of many 3rd Party builds.
With SeaMonkey you get no BS at all just the straight facts. Which I really like.
100% agree with you on this too "Valuable as extension devs and theme authors may be, that is not the same as having a strong team of core devs working on the platform and it is the latter that is slightly lean atm and has been for a while."
Also hoping that SeaMonkey can get more core devs working on the browser for future releases and ongoing. (I hope.) [-o<
SeaMonkey IMHO is one the best browsers out there and should remain on as a browser. I LOVE IT :D

4td8s
 
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Post Posted November 25th, 2017, 9:14 am

LuvKomputrs wrote:Also hoping that SeaMonkey can get more core devs working on the browser for future releases and ongoing. (I hope.) [-o<
SeaMonkey IMHO is one the best browsers out there and should remain on as a browser. I LOVE IT :D


just don't "love it" too much where it becomes either an obsession or an addiction

though I've been trying out Bill's SM ESR and SM trunk x64 builds in the meantime since Adrian seems to be MIA (missing-in-action)

LuvKomputrs

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Post Posted November 27th, 2017, 8:11 am

4td8s wrote:
LuvKomputrs wrote:Also hoping that SeaMonkey can get more core devs working on the browser for future releases and ongoing. (I hope.) [-o<
SeaMonkey IMHO is one the best browsers out there and should remain on as a browser. I LOVE IT :D


just don't "love it" too much where it becomes either an obsession or an addiction

:lol: Me is already addicted to it! *yes...I can speak proper English...* :wink:
4td8s wrote:though I've been trying out Bill's SM ESR and SM trunk x64 builds in the meantime since Adrian seems to be MIA (missing-in-action)

Thanks for posting those links. :)
Noticed part of your UA string is different *Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.2*.
Why 2.49.2 instead of 2.49.1? Is it a fork of SeaMonkey or a custom build? :-k
Does he have any x86 builds of SeaMonkey ESR?
I myself have a Windows 7 32bit Dell Core 2 Duo Intel desktop computer and a Asus Eee PC computer with Linux MInt OS.
I tend to use my desktop (Windows OS)computer more. Got more RAM on it, plus the computer keyboard keys are bigger. :wink:
Thanks again! :)

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