How do I remove signature divider

[Freee!!]

Still wanting to be rid of that pesky (-- ) above my sig in Thunderbird...call me out for lack of netiquette.

I followed learning2's instructions. I made a backup of my T-bird.exe file. I used xvi32 as my Hex editor. I found the dashes just above the 'moz-signature' line. I replaced the hex with 00 for each of those spaces. Everything worked to a T except...when I go to save it, it gives me the message "Error 5 - Access is Denied." I can't overwrite the Thunderbird.exe file. I have full admin permissions, Thunderbird is closed and is not listed as an open Process. Any ideas for me? I'd love to get rid of the dashes. And, yes, I've read all of the arguments for and against.

Make really sure Thunderbird isn't running. If the problem still occurs, check the attributes of thunderbird.exe. You will probably find that it is Read-only.

[KRipken]

Still wanting to be rid of that pesky (-- ) above my sig in Thunderbird...call me out for lack of netiquette.

I followed learning2's instructions. I made a backup of my T-bird.exe file. I used xvi32 as my Hex editor. I found the dashes just above the 'moz-signature' line. I replaced the hex with 00 for each of those spaces. Everything worked to a T except...when I go to save it, it gives me the message "Error 5 - Access is Denied." I can't overwrite the Thunderbird.exe file. I have full admin permissions, Thunderbird is closed and is not listed as an open Process. Any ideas for me? I'd love to get rid of the dashes. And, yes, I've read all of the arguments for and against.

Make really sure Thunderbird isn't running. If the problem still occurs, check the attributes of thunderbird.exe. You will probably find that it is Read-only.

I booted into Safe Mode and was able to remove the (-- ) using XVI32 and was able to save the file. I rebooted and Thunderbird started fine and the dashes were gone. Now, a new question: How do I remove the "greyed out" signature? The signature shows as "pre-format" rather than "body text." That may have something to do with it. Thanks.

[roparr2]

Do we usually let threads run for 5 years? LOL. Is there a fix for this in v.3?

[Freee!!]

Do we usually let threads run for 5 years? LOL. Is there a fix for this in v.3?

Off-topic:
I don't see a problem as long as everybody stays on topic and people regularly reply here. I think it would be closed quickly enough if it were kicked alive after more than a year of dormancy.

[rsx11m]

Is there a fix for this in v.3?

On topic: As it's not considered a "bug" officially, don't expect it to be "fixed" in either 3.0 (definitely no change in behavior there) or 3.1.

[Freee!!]

Is there a fix for this in v.3?

On topic: As it's not considered a "bug" officially, don't expect it to be "fixed" in either 3.0 (definitely no change in behavior there) or 3.1.

Even "worse", it is an ISO standard, so I suggest you learn to live with it.

[roparr2]

I've gotten used to it, and I know it's not a bug. I just don't like the huge space between the bottom of the body and the sig lines, because I do a lot of extended conversations back and forth by email.

Actually it was kicked open from 2005 to 2008. The problem with that is that anyone who joins in, like me, has to read 10 pages of posts. New thread would have been better.

[Ricardouno]

I just started to use TB and I didn't know there was this "standard" used worldwide in e-mails. I communictate a lot using e-mails and I never paid attention to the -- above the signature. I have seen different versions of signatures and some have a line separating the signature to the actual mail, something like this _____________. Is this line the same as -- ?
Well, I just thought that maybe the following companies would then need some help, because they don't seem to know about the so called ISO worldwide standard about e-mails. IMHO, giving an option to the people wouldn't be the wrong way.
Here is just a small collection of different companies, Consulates, Travelagencies and hotels from different countries, that don't use the seperator:

Carlsonwagonlit
Louis Vuitton
Australian Consulate in Chengdu China
UBS
Worldhotels
Asia Development Bank
Airis
St. Regis Shanghai
FCm First Business Travel
Grand Park Hotel
Swiss Embassy, Beijing, China
HRG Consulting
Travel China Guide
Entertainment Publications, Inc.
Wacker Chemie AG
Lafarge
Tech Data Switzerland
AREVA T&D Inc.
Eight Communications Group
gerrityinternational
Monarch Airlines
Asia Pacific Equipment Training Solutions
WORLD TRADE PLAZA HOTEL

[rsx11m]

line separating the signature to the actual mail, something like this _____________. Is this line the same as -- ?

No, it is not. It has to be dash+dash+space to be properly recognized.

Here is just a small collection of different companies, Consulates, Travelagencies and hotels from different countries, that don't use the seperator:

If they are using Microsoft Outlook or Lotus Note (quite popular in the commercial world), they ignore the DDS separator, so do various web-mail services.

[idfubar]

I just started to use TB and I didn't know there was this "standard" used worldwide in e-mails. I communictate a lot using e-mails and I never paid attention to the -- above the signature. I have seen different versions of signatures and some have a line separating the signature to the actual mail, something like this _____________. Is this line the same as -- ?
Well, I just thought that maybe the following companies would then need some help, because they don't seem to know about the so called ISO worldwide standard about e-mails. IMHO, giving an option to the people wouldn't be the wrong way.
Here is just a small collection of different companies, Consulates, Travelagencies and hotels from different countries, that don't use the seperator:

Carlsonwagonlit
Louis Vuitton
Australian Consulate in Chengdu China
UBS
Worldhotels
Asia Development Bank
Airis
St. Regis Shanghai
FCm First Business Travel
Grand Park Hotel
Swiss Embassy, Beijing, China
HRG Consulting
Travel China Guide
Entertainment Publications, Inc.
Wacker Chemie AG
Lafarge
Tech Data Switzerland
AREVA T&D Inc.
Eight Communications Group
gerrityinternational
Monarch Airlines
Asia Pacific Equipment Training Solutions
WORLD TRADE PLAZA HOTEL

No; although another poster mentioned Microsoft Outlook & Lotus Notes you should know the "_____________" line which you referenced is an HTML separator (the discussion here applies to both an HTML "--" as well as a plain-text "--")...

BTW, there are two flaws in your argument:

(1) Just because the large/well-known companies you listed don't observe the standard in practice does not mean that they are not aware (or that they need help)... Proper form for electronic mail communications is actually to bottom-post replies but you definitely won't see any of the companies you listed following the convention.

(2) As mentioned, many of large companies use enterprise software (e.g. Microsoft Outlook, Lotus Notes) for electronic mail communication; although communique which are generated by such software can reflect a choice of configuration, such communique can also reflect the use of default configuration values (which is actually a manifestation of choices made during the software design & development process).

PS: Perhaps anyone who doesn't want the divider included could (a) not use Thunderbird's signature facility and (b) consider using default text which is of the form of the desired divider and signature?

[Ricardouno]

Well, I just wanted to show that not everyone is using "--". My comment about these companies was a bit sarcastic, but as a fact,
I do actually have emails from all the companies listed.
It's just amazing how some people in this thread try to educate others, just because some are asking for an option.
They talk about standards and even about ISO standards. Where is the proof that this is an ISO standard, or a standard used in every of the over 200 countries worldwide?
This will be an on going argument with no end, because some people think they know better and need to educate others. Sounds like history to me....
Just keep in mind, that because many people, lets say 1'000'000'000 people (US + EU = 800'000'000) do something and say this is standard, there might be one country, such as India or China, which has a different standard. Now who will be right? I think India or China by themselfs have more than 1'000'000'000 people....

All some of us are asking for is an option, that's all.

sorry if you missunderstand, I am not trying to attack anyone personaly.

[Freee!!]

Well, I just wanted to show that not everyone is using "--".

Just about everyone in this discussion was already aware of that

My comment about these companies was a bit sarcastic,

It looks like some people missed the (obvious) sarcasm.

but as a fact, I do actually have emails from all the companies listed.

I can add a couple of more to the list if you wish.

It's just amazing how some people in this thread try to educate others,

Guilty as charged. Unfortunately, it is genetic (both parents, maternal grandmother and paternal grandfather were teachers )

just because some are asking for an option.

Just as I am explaining why it is unlikely that option will be incorporated in Thunderbird.

They talk about standards and even about ISO standards. Where is the proof that this is an ISO standard, or a standard used in every of the over 200 countries worldwide?

I can't find the ISO standard at the moment. As for a standard used in every country, I don't know of a single standard used in every country, wether related to email or not outside of a couple of basic units like the Ohm, the Tesla and the Volt. Even length and weight aren't truly standardized across the globe.

This will be an on going argument with no end,

True, and for some the discussion itself is entertaining enough, no need to reach an end.

because some people think they know better and need to educate others. Sounds like history to me....

When has history ever prevented people from repeating their mistakes?

Just keep in mind, that because many people, lets say 1'000'000'000 people (US + EU = 800'000'000) do something and say this is standard, there might be one country, such as India or China, which has a different standard. Now who will be right? I think India or China by themselfs have more than 1'000'000'000 people....

Ever seen a case where the majority was right? - Lazarus Long

All some of us are asking for is an option, that's all.

There is such an option. Unfortunately for some, part of that option is not using Thunderbird.

sorry if you missunderstand, I am not trying to attack anyone personaly.

Not personally taken and you have some valid arguments.

[idfubar]

They talk about standards and even about ISO standards. Where is the proof that this is an ISO standard, or a standard used in every of the over 200 countries worldwide?

I can't find the ISO standard at the moment. As for a standard used in every country, I don't know of a single standard used in every country, wether related to email or not outside of a couple of basic units like the Ohm, the Tesla and the Volt. Even length and weight aren't truly standardized across the globe.

IETF and IEEE standards tend to be universal.

because some people think they know better and need to educate others. Sounds like history to me....

When has history ever prevented people from repeating their mistakes?

When human beings discovered ubiquitous communication and information abundance.

All some of us are asking for is an option, that's all.

There is such an option. Unfortunately for some, part of that option is not using Thunderbird.

Perhaps we should all keep in mind the fact that Thunderbird is open source... while it's a good idea to understand a particular issue (say, by engaging in a discussion on MozillaZine) there's nothing preventing any user from signing up for a Bugzilla account & submitting a request or even coding a change of their own... One is probably best served by understanding that people feel passionately about open source software.

sorry if you missunderstand, I am not trying to attack anyone personaly.

Not personally taken and you have some valid arguments.

'Freee!!', I'm not sure the comment was directly at you personally... but in any case I agree with you've said.

[rsx11m]

IETF and IEEE standards tend to be universal.

Yes, it's stated in an RFC, I'm not aware of any ISO standardization. IETF has adopted it from a Usenet convention.

[Freee!!]

'Freee!!', I'm not sure the comment was directly at you personally... but in any case I agree with you've said.

I am pretty sure some of it was (ISO ) and some of it wasn't, felt like answering all points.